Friday, 1 June 2012

Info is Everything

It’s an achievement even coming 29th in the UK’s social brands 100. This was a survey published this week of the top 100 UK companies using social media advantageously. It might sound a poor result but Trent Barton at no. 29 came top of only a handful of transport providers and ahead of more august organisations such as the BBC, Sainsbury’s and even Google. The only other bus operator within the 100 was Cardiff Bus (no. 45). These seem the only two brands in the bus industry worthy of the tag “what it means to be a social brand”.

There were plenty of surprises in that top 100. The social brand list didn’t actually correlate at all with proper UK brands. I found myself thinking “so what” when I discovered Lurpak was no. 13, the RSPB no. 23 and Fifteen Cornwall (who??) no. 44. Equal at no. 29 with Trent Barton were Virtuous Bread (who??) and the NSPCC. Big deal. My guess is that Lurpak readers will be thinking just the same about Trent Barton. Who??

I still think that bus operators are missing a trick if the best they can do is get nos. 29 and 45. Passengers may not like disruption and change but if you communicate well with them, if you keep them informed, at least you stand a chance of keeping them on side. Information is everything, these days. Indeed, information is power (or it empowers). There are so many things that can potentially go wrong with regard to a bus journey or service—and, these days, very few supervisory staff to explain matters—that social media are of increasing importance.

It’s certainly less vital that customers communicate instantly with Lurpak, the Ellen DeGeneres Show (no. 9) or the National Trust (24), yet they seemingly do it better than Trent Barton but more importantly, they do it better than the rest of the bus industry, so it seems. Or, perhaps the rest just didn’t bother to enter.

Unsurprisingly, Trent Barton’s capitalised on its showing. You wouldn’t expect otherwise. It certainly has a thirst for communicating with its passengers. Wasn't there some niggling allegations of minor Facebook censorship some months ago—unless I have that wrong. But fair play, Trent Barton treats social media very seriously. It doesn’t turn off the Blackberry at 1730. Indeed, Trent Barton’s famous Director of Passion & Desire stated that responses could even come on Christmas Day and did when someone’s partner was giving birth. Sorry but even for a seasoned workaholic like me I’m not sure that working during someone’s childbirth or on Christmas Day is healthy. I never did that. But then again the closest we got to social media at the time my wife gave birth was a landline, a typewriter and some carbon paper.

55 comments:

Anonymous said...

Link to report

fatbusbloke said...

I remember once, in another trade, being conned by a slick salesman to place an ad in a glossy guide with (claimed) good circulation figures. It was a real guide, they sent me a copy BUT it was distributed to those who advertised in it and no others!
So Trent has been lauded for its use of social media, coming 29th in a survey by an organisation promoting social media, surveying those who, erm, use social media.
Is there any evidence that social media brings more poepl on to buses?
How about distributing a free timetable book house to house OR not charging people for finding out when their bus runs OR ensuring that bus stop information is up to date?
But these things involve real effort and measurable cost rather than playing with confusers.

Anonymous said...

I bet the last three were 9998SKY.9999 BT 1000travelline.

Anonymous said...

I'd be interested in knowing exactly how this was measured. Or what it means in practice.
I'm all for bus companies communicating well and effectively but, as fbb points out, this goes far deeper than "texting your mates" - sorry, inbuilt bias showing there - but has to be deeply embedded in the organisation.
TrentBarton is probably better than most, but how can it be a UK brand? Its a sub-regional bus operator, for goodness sake.

fatbusbloke said...

"Trent doesn't turn its Blackberry off at 1730" - but it doesn't answer phones after 1900 MF and 1200 Sa and not at all on Sundays.
Presumably a "phone" isn't social media. It used to be when I was a lad!

Anonymous said...

Has people read that report? I have may doubt,

No3 Giffgaff, who I only just heard about thanks to E4 few weeks ago

N10 The Ellen DeGeneres Show, that broadcast at lunchtime on sky in one of the 200-299 channels

That list is utter crap; so out of 100'000 a good number come from Nottingham hence trentbarton got in!

Anonymous said...

"Trent doesn't turn its Blackberry off at 1730" - but it doesn't answer phones after 1900 MF and 1200 Sa and not at all on Sundays.

The early finish on Saturday is perhaps the most baffling, though with Sundays being the 2nd busiest shopping day, it is surprising that they don't have a presence on the sabbath.

To gauge (unscientifically), I did a few checks on other firms.

Nottingham City Transport do have Saturday and Sunday contact details

First's Central Customer Services are 7 days a week but individual firms do have travel offices that are open on Saturdays (e.g. Somerset & Avon - Bristol, Bridgwater, Taunton, Bath; Hampshire - Gosport, Fareham, Portsmouth, Southampton)

Arriva Midlands - now I know they have travel offices but the website doesn't give any clues. Instead, even for lost property, you're directed to central customer services 0800-1800 Mon to Fri only

Stagecoach Northants - Mon to Fri 0800-1700

Stagecoach Oxford - Mon to Fri 0700 - 2000, Sat/Sun 0900-1700

In that case, Trent are above average but it does vary a lot.

Anonymous said...

fbb is right.The things that people of our era did automatically are not even in the minds of the latter day mindless.

viewfromthesouth said...

The cynic in me suggests that it is another perfect excuse for AH to get his grinning mugshot in the rags. My top 3 list of bus industry personalities regularly seen in the press:

1 Alex Hornby
2 James Freeman
3 = Peter Hendy/Leon Daniels (must be in a Routemaster or NBFL)

Seriously, I agree with anonymous 10:30. How can a (relatively) small regional bus operator realistically stand up to these figures given that in my neck of the woods they are unheard of. Utter tosh.

Anonymous said...

01 June, 2012 08:33, fatbusbloke said:

" Is there any evidence that social media brings more people on to buses?"

I'm of a similar era to fbb, and I don't have a Facebook or twitter account, though I do look at bus operators' Facebook pages.

The fact is that young people use social media extensively and I suspect that operators that fail to engage with it do so at their peril. The youngsters are the customers of the future, so operators have to engage in a way that young people find appealing.

So I feel that the answer to fbb's question is that even if social media doesn't currently bring more people onto buses, it may help to hang on to ridership in the future.

Pete said...

I suspect social media is one (or are several, if you pedantically prefer) of those intangibles, like route branding, smart liveries and community engagement, which contribute to a sense of quality and of bus travel not being the last resort of the loser.

How much it contributes to the bottom line is unknowable, but getting a contrary reputation - old-fashioned, drab - is likely to be harmful. The moral is probably don't spend too much on it!

Neil said...

It's also a very cheap way of providing almost-RTPI with a nice human touch which is open to even the smallest operator.

Anonymous said...

... provided the small operator can afford to have someone sitting there all day, every day, answering tweets and FB comments ...

Anonymous said...

The "social brands oscars" is sponsored by a social brands agency who have a vested interest in "pushing" social media.

Objective? Not much. Pity TB fell for it.

Michael Bennett said...

The Social Brands Oscars could well be for insiders – many media awards are, and in fact always have been even when media was in more traditional forms, but, in this day and age, you need to use the right media channel to engage with a particular audience. In fact this has also always been the case. Posh country hotels advertised in Horse and Hounds, whilst Butlins advertised in The Sun. It’s the same with age demographic separations. Stair-lifts were never advertised in Viz, and Drum ‘n’ Base gigs don’t feature in Saga’s pages.

So what am I saying. Printed timetables and staff ready to help or take calls in person are needed, but equally as important, social and digital media are needed if there is to be any hope of attracting and retaining younger or just more technologically enabled prospective passengers for whom new media is a norm in their other everyday interactions with suppliers. It’s equally as daft to say “it’s on the website” as a panacea answer to all as it is to say “what good is social media”. One commentator referred to presumably the new generation as “mindless”. They might well say the same about someone who insists on going out and buying a printed timetable book which is almost instantly out of date when the newer media can provide something much more reliable in an instant.

Bus passengers tend to the age extremes – the old and the young – time to stop arguing about which to reach and recognise that you need to address both.

Neil said...

"... provided the small operator can afford to have someone sitting there all day, every day, answering tweets and FB comments ..."

Perhaps surprisingly, probably because very committed managers tend to do it, there are quite a few that do.

My point was more regarding that it's possible for a one man band to tweet "running 20 mins late" from his phone while stopped safely in a bus stop, and answer properly when he's finished his shift. Not as good but definitely better than nothing, and way cheaper than any other kind of RTPI.

Neil

Neil said...

"Is there any evidence that social media brings more poepl on to buses?
How about distributing a free timetable book house to house OR not charging people for finding out when their bus runs OR ensuring that bus stop information is up to date?
But these things involve real effort and measurable cost rather than playing with confusers."

And none of them provide real-time information, something that, Council-funded RTPI systems aside, bus companies are absolutely rubbish at, while train companies are getting ever better.

Neil

Anonymous said...

How lucky I am to be old, not profitable enough to waste money on publicity departments though, hang on, wasn't Leven Valley voted Best Bus Operator at Battersby Junction Travelling towards Kildale on a Wet Afternoon in March 1994! Gosh I'd nearly forgot!

No offence T-B. You are obviously very good, though I only know via your much reported reputation, but have not these 'awards' totally got out of hand and carry therefore little, if any, weight?

Paul. Leven Valley, North East England.

Anonymous said...

TRENT.As in TRENTS CAKES? BARTON As in DICK BARTON SPECIAL AGENT? They WERE National.

Anonymous said...

Like Paul @ Leven Valley says, aren't these awards just another smokescreen to deflect attention away from the real job of providing a decent service?
Those operators who do a good job don't feel the need to constantly blow the trumpet, and simply get on with providing a service that people want to use.

Anonymous said...

Something seems very odd with this data. As others have said, there's no way that TrentBarton will be well known outside the East Midlands - it's hardly a national operator like Stagecoach.

I always felt that something went awry when the old guard at Trent eventually handed over to the new breed and there's been nothing yet to change my view.

Anonymous said...

Talking about answering customer phone calls - one operator answers calls 24/7, 365 days a year AND the locals do take advantage of that fact and call at all sorts of strange hours! What operator?......Ensignbus.

Social media (i.e. twitter and facebook) has not featured at Ensignbus yet but I think its a matter of time.

Alex Hornby said...

Interesting comments all round!

Firstly, I'm sorry iof people think that our priorities have switched to only talking through social media. If there's people on here that don't want to address us via social media (and that's fine by us!) I'm more than happy for people to drop me an email (alex@trentbarton.co.uk) or letter (Mansfield Rd Heanor DE75 7BG), I'll send them a £10 MANGO and you can then tell me your experiences with trent barton. Always keen to hear what people think of us and our product.

I'm perplexed that we think it's terrible that we feature but then moan that more bus companies should feature on a list like this (the blog is so contradictory I got confused - I admit!). Isn't it important that the bus industry celebrates success? Enough people run 'the bus' down don't they? We're not saying we're perfect - indeed, we love social media because we get great discussion of what people like and don't like about us!

And we've never said "we do social media well so therefore we don't communicate with our customers in other ways". We have many ways we talk with our customers, even by (shock!) travelling on our buses and talking to our customers too...! And our many research projects per year - 22 since start of 2011. And our customer services team by phone, letter and email. And our empowered teams of drivers. And regular doordrops and comms withe new homeowners. And.... (OK, I'm getting too defensive now)

Do also remember that the Oscars are done by the film industry, the UK Bus Awards are done by the bus industry. So, the social media awards are - guess what - done by the social media industry. The fact that little old us has appeared on a list that celebrates communication with customers and that it features global giants is surely something to have a little bit of happiness about... At least for the people in our team who do such a great job with it, and our customers (the important ones) who appreciate it. Well, we thought so anyway!

Alex Hornby said...

Interesting comments all round!

Firstly, I'm sorry iof people think that our priorities have switched to only talking through social media. If there's people on here that don't want to address us via social media (and that's fine by us!) I'm more than happy for people to drop me an email (alex@trentbarton.co.uk) or letter (Mansfield Rd Heanor DE75 7BG), I'll send them a £10 MANGO and you can then tell me your experiences with trent barton. Always keen to hear what people think of us and our product.

I'm perplexed that we think it's terrible that we feature but then moan that more bus companies should feature on a list like this (the blog is so contradictory I got confused - I admit!). Isn't it important that the bus industry celebrates success? Enough people run 'the bus' down don't they? We're not saying we're perfect - indeed, we love social media because we get great discussion of what people like and don't like about us!

And we've never said "we do social media well so therefore we don't communicate with our customers in other ways". We have many ways we talk with our customers, even by (shock!) travelling on our buses and talking to our customers too...! And our many research projects per year - 22 since start of 2011. And our customer services team by phone, letter and email. And our empowered teams of drivers. And regular doordrops and comms withe new homeowners. And.... (OK, I'm getting too defensive now)

Do also remember that the Oscars are done by the film industry, the UK Bus Awards are done by the bus industry. So, the social media awards are - guess what - done by the social media industry. The fact that little old us has appeared on a list that celebrates communication with customers and that it features global giants is surely something to have a little bit of happiness about... At least for the people in our team who do such a great job with it, and our customers (the important ones) who appreciate it. Well, we thought so anyway!

Anonymous said...

"Those operators who do a good job don't feel the need to constantly blow the trumpet, and simply get on with providing a service that people want to use."

What rubbish!

Trent Barton DO do a good job, and provide an excellent service.

Compare that to my Arriva subsidiary, who have never done any positive PR whatsoever, and certainly never 'blow their own trumpet' - and who operate a pretty dire service.

Anonymous said...

Re: Anon 1/6 @ 19:03....
If TB does such a good job how come there remains potential for a lower cost operator to carve a niche out for itself?

It is all very good that the likes of TB and all the others embrace new ways of talking to their customers, and finding new ones too, but why are we celebrating what all operators should be doing as a matter of course?

There's plenty around who do a good job, do the things that people should be doing, yet they feel the need to not blow their own trumpet so much. Do local customers really care two hoots about some award?

They're more likely to care about their bus turning up when the timetable says it will, that it is clean and tidy, and that someone at head office isn't going to change the timetable next week....

I guess your wonderful local Arriva subsidiary don't blow their own trumpet as they're too busy running buses? In my recent experiences the Arriva buses were clean, tidy and presentable, better than those of the local Stagecoach subsidiary who's fleet and service always smacked of an afterthought...

Anonymous said...

Have to agree with Paul @ Leven Valley and Mr Anonymous who mentioned Ensignbus.

Priority #1: get the product (service) right.

Twitter and FB are a just bit further down the list.

Anonymous said...

^ shame there isn't a like button on here^ ;)

Anonymous said...

Alex H again here... Folks - the point I'm trying to make is that there isn't an 'and/or' here. We don't sacrifice trying our damndest to satisfy the customer's no 1 priority of reex again liability to go and play on Facebook. We are able to do a number of things so we can build effective relationships with our customers, be it giving them good service, informing them, engaging in two way dialogue with them and more.

Anonymous said...

*reliability - very tricky this commenting lark on a blackberry!!

Chris Barker said...

PASSENGERS, please, Mr Hornby!
I live in the heart of TB territory and when I use your services, I am a passenger. When I shop in Tesco or Asda, then I'm a customer. I remember when British Rail started this nonsense many years ago and I'm surprised it's still perpetuated today. Another example of political correctness gone mad!

Your comment about the UK Bus Awards being done by the bus industry and the social media awards being done by the social media industry says it all really. What does all this mean to me, the passenger, waiting at the bus stop?

Nothing really!

Michael Bennett said...

A proposition:

You're a passenger when you're on the bus. You're a customer of the bus company all the time you're using the service from time to time.

You're a shopper when you're in Asda. You're a customer of the supermarket all the time you're visiting from time to time.

Both a shopper and a passenger are specialised forms of customers, so none of the three terms are wrong.

P.S. Well done to Mr Hornby for stating that engaging with customers about the service and operating the service are not mutually exclusive!

RW said...

"If TB does such a good job how come there remains potential for a lower cost operator to carve a niche out for itself? "

It is always possible to do this - some people would like a cheap pint of lager and I always want real ale.
The trouble is that with buses the market is not always big enough for 2 or more, but because TB and NCT are good and have a pro-bus council the market is now big enough for more than 2.
The league tables do not directly matter at the bus stop, but they encourage companies to do better and that does matter at the bus stop!

Anonymous said...

Blimey, you are a negative bunch! Why not try looking at the 'Trent Barton LIVE' Facebook page, twitter account or their blog? Then you will see how useful it really can be, and how making use of it can be an effective way to manage customer questions, dealm with complaints and keep up to date with traffic announcements. Some examples of customer feedback:

"Be able to top your mango up by £5 instead of £10 because some people don't have £10 spare to top up nowadays, cheaper fares to derby and quicker times to, it's like 1 hour 45 mins from mansfield to derby you can get to london from notts in that time on the train :)"

"You could run prizes for people who "check in" to the bus stations, who tweet a certain hashtag, or who check in on foursquare. You could use other social media (twitter, foursquare) to further engage with the public.

The difficulty is that a very small percentage of users of your service will actively engage with a bus company on fb & twitter, which is really your first hurdle.

Posters on the buses asking people to follow you on twitter/fb for service updates would be a start."

This wasn't an award about Trent Barton as a bus company, but Trent Barton as an organisation making use of the available social media in the best possible way. I think they do a great job.

I live in Buxton, the new 'High Peak' territory. What I've noticed is the High Peak guys continuing what they learnt at Trent Barton, and it shows. They do a better job at communication than any other Centrebus managed operation.

Now, Alex, as a soon-to-be graduate, can I have a job please?! I would love to work for TB!

Anonymous said...

Chris Barker 01 June, 2012 20:18 sais

"PASSENGERS, please, Mr Hornby!
I live in the heart of TB territory and when I use your services, I am a passenger. When I shop in Tesco or Asda, then I'm a customer. I remember when British Rail started this nonsense many years ago and I'm surprised it's still perpetuated today. Another example of political correctness gone mad!"

Sorry, Chris, but I think you're wrong here. Not political correctness, calling passengers customers (which they are) just focuses everyone's mind on where the money comes from to pay the wages and salaries.

Anonymous said...

Smaller operators like Leven Valley and Ensignbus (where the proprietors' money is at stake) have to focus their efforts on maintaining the service first and foremost.

There is no "slack" in terms of spare people to sit around twittering 24/7. Undoubtedly social media is useful and may become more so in the future but many/most enquiries, complaints are still going to come via traditional means - phone etc.

Doing ALL these things is fine for a large company like T-B who may have spare people at head office to do it. And yes, I have looked at T-B's FB and see that they must have someone there more-or-less 24/7 to deal with it all. (I wonder what the cost is? Perhaps Alex can tell us)

But let T-B do the pioneering work (and don't berudge Alex winning the CV-enhancing awards, no matter how nebulous) - it's not our/my money that is paying for his Twitter/FB team.

Once Twitter and FB (or their successors in this fickle, fast-changing field) supplant the phone, letter etc, smaller operators will transfer resources away from the typewriter and steam-phone.

In the meantime, Mr Anonymous Graduate looking for a job: Isn't it rather unimaginative wanting to work for T-B?

Wouldn't more of a challenge be to introduce social media at a smaller firm firmly wedded to traditional communication means (perhaps working for nix)?

Or set up a contract "I will Twitter for you" service for smaller firms?

There might even be an award in it at the Small Bus Operators Who Are Now On Twitter Oscars", and if those don't exist you could always invent them.

There we are: three good ideas for free ... Now don't get me started on the trouble with graduates looking for a job (and the need to make use of their knowledge while they still know everything)... that's for another thread ...

Phil Stockley said...

With the greatest respect to all concerned, I really don't get this notion that communicating effectively with your customers through media that they like using is somehow an alternative to providing a good bus service.

Surely it is PART of providing a good service, along with reliable timetables, friendly drivers, well presented vehicles etc...

Indeed social media are much easier to manage than traditional methods of communication because they can be updated by anyone, anywhere. At Velvet we don't need big company resources - we can do Twitter, Facebook and usually the phone 24/7/365 because we have a few committed individuals with mobile phones. On the phone we often deal with as many enquiries out of hours for the bigger operators' services as we do for our own, because we are happy to do so and they choose not to.

The number of people visiting our Facebook page far exceeds visitors to our website. Few people would think it acceptable not to have a website in this day and age, but this suggests to us that it's even more important to have a strong social media presence.

If an operator tries (or at least considers) social media and makes a conscious business decision to reject them, then that is fair enough. To me it is exactly the same as not having a uniform or fleet livery - I don't agree with it but I respect the operator's right to make that decision.

But for people to suggest that it is somehow unreasonable or unrealistic for operators to be expected to maintain a strong social media presence because it might get in the way of providing a good service, is to fundamentally miss the point!

Anonymous said...

Phil

Indeed, it is PART of providing a service but an operator has to decide how much resource he can devote to each part and where that gets best results.

Thank you for some metrics - however vague - visitors to website vs FB. That is what we want to know. If operators could MEASURE tangible results from say, social media, they would be far more likely to allocate resource to it.

Phil Stockley said...

Anon @0940

Yes I agree with you completely.

My argument is with those who see social media almost as some kind of witchcraft, and that operators who dabble in it are somehow diverting their attention away from running a good bus service...

Anonymous said...

Phil

Thanks for comments.

I suspect the "social media as witchcraft" is a not uncommon view.

How the mix of ways communication is handled is the issue. But operators I know are hard-nosed about expenditure at the mo and they want to see value for money before investing in FB etc.

Where we started, "social media oscars" rings of hype. Hype may put them off by obscuring the real message.

Phil Stockley said...

I understand the point, but I happen to disagree. Using that logic, the film industry would be damaged by the real Oscars, and likewise winning a BAFTA would be a kiss of death for an otherwise successful TV programme (surely they should be concentrating on getting viewers...!). OK, I'm taking the point to an extreme but I see a direct analogy.

Anyone who understands the value of social media should rejoice in the fact that the social media 'industry' itself sees a regional bus operator as being among the most effective 30 organisations in all sectors of industry in the whole country, beating the likes of the BBC, O2 and Google in the process.

Anyone who doesn't understand the value of social media is perfectly at liberty simply to ignore this particular report, but not (in my view) to use it as a stick with which to beat the operator.

It would be different if there was some evidence that trent barton were failing in other respects to run a decent bus service, but the evidence would seem to suggest that on the whole they try very hard and have very many satisfied customers, and on this basis why shouldn't they be recognised for their achievements in social media, and give the rest of us something to aim for!

Michael Bennett said...

Reading Buses make good use of facebook. I’ve many times seen passengers have a grumble about something, receive an explanation, and then demonstrate understanding and appreciation of the response (thank RB for the explanation) all within an hour. Compare the speed, cost, ease, and effectiveness with that of traditional methods.

Anonymous said...

Phil

My point and the point of others is that there is a major difference between the "real" Oscars, BAFTA, even the UK Bus Awards "Oscars", and a small social media agency with a vested interest in promoting social media coming up with an award for social media.

Anonymous said...

I've never worked for a bus company so I can't comment from that point of view but what I would say in my experience, is that the larger the company, the harder it is to creatively use these tools because so much focus is given to the use of 'resources' (people!) and the need to be able to quantify the value that using such social media tools generates. The problem is it *can't* be easily quantified - so they don't bother using it - but it's clear that the better managed smaller companies and a few of the more enlightened larger ones, are willing to absorb any additional costs as part of their overall marketing mix and see it as an inherent part of running their business. Yes, it needs time and attention which hands-on management can give but to try to justify its use, cost-wise, as a stand-alone tool is never going to stand up.

Social Media = just one (but a very positive one) way to speak to passengers said...

I suspect the good ones aren't resourced in the expected manner, but are the product of a dedicated bunch who are prepared to give up some time because they really do want to offer a better service. Always read but rarely commented on, this blog does have some posters that just don't seem to want the Industry to succeed, with a type of dammned if you do, dammned if you don't approach. There is room for everyone, the businesses that make the effort and those that don't but the better staff, and the majority of passengers will naturally migrate to those that do. Good luck to everyone who finds themselves answering emails, calls and social media updates at all times of the day and sometimes night, but often weekends and holidays - share the load, don't wear yourself out and keep the faith. Social Media isn't going anywhere - embrace and enjoy

Anonymous said...

As other posters have commented, with regards to people wishing to see themselves in the media all the time, one would be interested to see AH's efforts using his own money, like many small operators who put their money where their mouth is instead using using a corporate balance sheet like many of today's big group graduates.
One, perhaps sees him becoming a future operator in his own right. I am sure such a leap for him would make for an impressive operation somewhere?

driving lessons Worcester said...

Through social media is the fastest way of buying and selling goods. Most people are specially working have limited time that's why they depends to the net.

Anonymous said...

Well before Alex leaves to set up a new company with his own money (unlikely !), can he clarify whether he has any responsibilty for the dismal performance of TM Travel - also part of the Wellglade group but, seemingly, being left to rot away.

Anonymous said...

I'd imagine as Commercial Director for the group, Alex has responsibility for TM Travel and finding it new work and retaining the existing contracts.

It might well be that the margins TM operated to are not the ones Wellglade wish to operate to hence potential losses of fringe work to other operations. But, as having a foot in Sheffield goes, it could one day have a lot of potential. As Alex is on £80k a year (said the original job advert) he has to come up with new ideas and develop the group.

TBH, I'm more impressed with smaller operations who innovate and develop their networks using their own money - it'd be interesting to see Alex heading up his own venture as I'm sure we'd see something quite interesting. His former mentor, Phil Stockley is running a successful innovative operation in South Hampshire.

Anonymous said...

(a) Doubt AH is looking to a career outside an established operator.

(b) He wouldn't get anything like £80K on his own.

(c) I doubt PS does either!

(d)Did the advert state the salary? I don't recall it did.

Phil Stockley said...

I'm sure Alex can speak for himself if he thinks it appropriate, but my understanding is that he is Commercial Director of trent barton, not Wellglade Group, and as such he is not involved with TM Travel.

As for the notion that you can only prove yourself in a small operation with your own money at stake, I think this is false. It's a raw, hard-edged, white-knuckle experience, and I feel sad that many corporate drones never get to experience that side of life. But it's not for everyone, and there is huge skill in getting the best out of big organisations with their complex staff structures, internal politics and longer decision chains!

Anonymous said...

I'm guessing that AH does not have a responsibility for TM. Indeed, it rather looks like nobody cares about it.

Anonymous said...

The advert for TB did state the salary -it is interesting it is twice what Ops Directors and Commercial Directors would earn within the larger groups.
But then as much of what TB does relates to commercial initiatives and development.

James said...

For reference: Fifteen Cornwall is Jamie Oliver's branch of his Fifteen project (the one that takes fifteen kids from the wrong side of the tracks and trains them as chefs).

You need to get out more - but I s'pose with Yellow Buses service being what it is... :)

Alex Hornby said...

Me again...

In response to those who've queried, my role is Commercial Director for trentbarton and Kinchbus. Wellglade is well-disciplined in that different managers run the different components of the group (rightly so too, in my opinion).

I couldn't help but be amused to follow how the trial of comments has changed from a discussion on social media to a well-meaning debate on me (not) running my own company! Whilst I greatly respect those who do, I have no ambition to join them,(and I know what I'm about to say will make me sound like a groupie) but - for me - I have the best job in the world in one of the finest bus companies that exists, so I have no wish to change that.

The job is not without its challenges and you don't simply get to play around with someone else's money; whilst we relish being in local ownership, you have to convince some of the most talented and experienced people that have graced our industry that your new idea is one that can work. And many inititiaves are signed off in what we joke is almost a 'Dragon's Den' style interrogation!

As for social media, it has cost trentbarton zero additional resource and the few that are involved fit it around our day jobs and use it as valuable insight into our customer's thinking. To read more on the subject, do check out our trent barton LIVE blog at http://trentbartonlive.blogspot.co.uk/

I hope that's dealt with those of you who've had queries. Nice to see the discussion get rather more productive!