Putting things right when they appear wrong is the key to great customer service. There are times when it’s difficult to substantiate something or where proof is shaky or inconclusive. Then again, there are others when that evidence appears incontrovertible, such as when someone has videoed something. Drivers need to be on their guard for the possibilities of mobile phones recording things in this way, as we’ve seen here, also in greater Manchester.
The driver of a Stagecoach Manchester Enviro 400 probably had no idea he was being videoed as he overtook a cyclist while approaching a pedestrian refuse. The episode has now gone up on You Tube. It’s difficult to make out the words of the cyclist as the bus passes but you can hear him say “f****** hell” as the bus comes across to the nearside.
Far from being a PR disaster as it could’ve been, though, Stagecoach’s well-chosen words (here) result in the cyclist and other commenters having confidence in the action taken.
The cyclist has posted a number of what he feels are close shaves, including with an Arriva Manchester Dennis Dart. See what you think. Here, the cyclist was less pleased with the operator response (though, unlike for Stagecoach, it isn’t shown, so we cannot judge).
25 comments:
The response has been added in a separate video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-MJ4NqGl-B8
Having seen similar videos in the past it is very hard to judge what actually happens. A wide angle lens can make something seem very different to reality, for example.
As an occasional cyclist and an occasional bus driver I can, to a degree, see both sides. I wonder how the cyclist has been riding before the “incident”? A simple bit of give-and-take works wonders.
All too often cyclists seem to ride with no regard to the world around them, they seem set on their goal and nothing will stop them. Personally I consider buses (and cars, come to that) as being big and heavy, and I know that they will hurt me if we come into contact. It’s best that I consider the space they need.
I wonder at the motives of cyclists who video their journeys. It’s not as if these are scenic country roads, where the ride might be worth recording. So what does the cyclist do before the video clip we see to annoy the bus driver? OK, as a professional they shouldn’t react, but are some of these “stage-managemed” to get a reaction?
More likely, as per some of the responses on the video, the cycle lane is too narrow, but the presence of one serves as an encouragement for drivers to pass a bit too close.
Much better would be if we would spend the proper money and attention on more Dutch-style segregated cycle lanes.
Neil
I wish I had a camera like this as a pedestrian to film all the cyclists who break the rules as well...
Clearly the cyclist has a "thing" about buses. I have a "thing" about inconsiderate cyclists who could, with to significant delay to therir joutmry, pull over and let queues of vehicles pass. Clearly this is not the problem in this case BUT there are often faults on both sides.
Bus companies are fined for late running, cyclists are not!
Clearly the cyclist has a "thing" about buses. I have a "thing" about inconsiderate cyclists who could, with no significant delay to their journey, pull over and let queues of vehicles pass. Clearly this is not the problem in this case BUT there are often faults on both sides.
Bus companies are fined for late running, cyclists are not!
I have not succeeded in finding Stagecoach's response on the links given.
If someone has found them could they copy them into this thread please?
If you follow the link to the video indicated in the (here) between the two screenshots, then click on the words show more under the cyclists comments, the Stagecoach response will be found.
Anon @ 08.15.
"I wonder at the motives of cyclists who video their journeys."
Similar motive to any other road user doing the same - including bus and coach owners. In the event of a collision, the incident is recorded along with, hopefully, the registration number of any vehicle at fault.
I am sure there will have been fraudulent claims from cyclists against bus companies that have been disproven by CCTV evidence. Though with any luck, few and far between.
31 May, 2012 08:17 Neil said:
" More likely, as per some of the responses on the video, the cycle lane is too narrow, but the presence of one serves as an encouragement for drivers to pass a bit too close."
Good to see the positive response from Stagecoach, but as a highway engineer I have to agree with Neil's comments.
There is a view in the highways business that we should be encouraging cyclists, but in my view the standards for these cycle lanes are not really adequate. But their presence does, as Neil suggests, encourage all drivers to think that they don't have to do much when passing cyclists that are using them and, indeed, does imply some legitimacy to this viewpoint.
I feel we have a long way to go before we are making proper provision for cyclists in the UK, as other commenters have suggested.
In my view, much of the provision for cyclists made by the highways business is of the box ticking variety, much like that which is made for buses. Standards are laid down by DfT and Highway Authorities tend to blindly follow them.
Cyclists have CCTV cameras on the front of their bikes for EXACTLY the same reason that all the major bus companies have CCTV cameras on the front of their vehicles. To protect themselves in the event of an incident or a dispute.
Stagecoach buses are fitted with forward and side facing cameras on the exterior, don't for one second think they'll have taken the cyclist's word as gospel.
Inconsiderate cycling is irritating, but define "inconsiderate". Cyclists are told to "hold the lane" to actually protect themselves; ride too close to the edge and you'll just get squeezed into the gutter. The only safe way to cycle is to ride assertively, making other road users go round you at a safe place rather than allow them to turf you into the ditch.
As for "pulling over to let queues of vehicles pass", I'd politely suggest that PCV and HGV drivers on national limit single carriageway roads are far more guilty of failing to do that...
As a daily cyclist and PCV driver I can see both sides of the argument. I know of some riders who have cameras on their bikes and it's actually in case of a collision (I understand you can get a reduction on your bike collision and accident insurance if you have cameras - believe it or not!).
So some comments. Highway design needs to be radically rethought. Too many cycle lanes are just too narrow and frequently in the pot hole-ridden kerbside. I sometimes wonder if urban designers dreaming up these schemes have ever actually been on a bike. It's a horrible place to be. A car/lorry/bus can cope with a pothole. Hit one on a bike and you're going over the handlebars.
But I'd also like so see some form of cycle training for drivers of large vehicles so that they can appreciate the cyclists point of view, especially when being passed by large vehicles. I'm a confident cyclist who has ridden a bike daily for several years, yet I'm still terrified at times. Just this morning I was almost squashed by the driver of a well known coach company who overtook me on a bend and then almost squashed me between the vehicle and a pavement railing. Only quick thinking and a fast application of brakes by me stopped a collision. I could see he clearly wasn't paying much attention to his nearside mirror.
But some cyclist just don't help themselves. It's a minority in my view, but when you're not on a bike you just see the offenders rather than those doing the right thing. I'd say around 85%-90% of cyclists obey the rules, don't run red lights or ride on pavements in the city where I live (a city which has a very high level of cycling - and traffic lights too!). The minority are stupid, feckless individuals and it irritates the hell out of the majority of us cyclists who do the right thing in obeying the law!
Also, using a sweeping generalisation like 'all cyclists break the law' is like saying 'all bus passengers are poor and on benefits'. It's counter-productive and simply not true.
I am a cyclist whom prefers to cycle on the pavements and in bike lanes as some large vehicles do drive too close. I feel HGV's are much worse than buses, especially the local Stagecoach drivers who are brilliant.
I always try and give way to other road users if I can find an opportunity and I try and cycle at the speed limit if possible (or as close to it as I can). It is definitely a two way street (excuse the pun) when it comes to cycling - vehicles overtaking should give lots of space even when overtaking a cyclist in a cycle lane.
The response from Stagecoach to the video above is excellent, and it has confirmed my thoughts on their Safety policies.
In my point of view, cyclists are pretty terrible themselves. Especially when it comes to holding up traffic. Just a few days ago I was catching Wilts and Dorset Purbeck Breezer 40 from Poole to Swanage for work. We approached Kingston hill, which is a steep 16% gradient, that goes on for a fair distance, around quite a few tight bends. We came across a cyclist also getting up the hill at a stupidly slow pace. Because of this, we ended up following the cyclist the entire hill, at a snails pace (literally to the point we had to stop at one point), which I'm sure did the engine no good.
If I was the cyclist and could see/hear a bus behind me on that hill, I would pull into the drive ways and let it pass. I do a fair bit of cycling, and I know it's a pain to lose your momentum, but walking a few meters isn't that bad. But causing delays in traffic is.
Perhaps Stagecoach should have sent him a free Megarider - the perfect solution to the problem!
This is actually very close to where I live and I have some sympathy with both the cyclist and the bus driver.
Even closer to where I live is Trafford Park, with a lot of off road cycle lanes - you rarely see anybody cycling in them - see this Google Street View of a cyclist in the road, next to a cycle lane: http://goo.gl/maps/YMDc
Cyclists and other vehicles are simply incompatible. A number of cyclists also fail to observe red lights and have no consideration for people on pavements. Unless they can be properly accommodated they should be banned.
A lot of the problem nowadays is that cyclists do travel a lot faster than they used to in my youth, meaning that gaining sufficient momentum when driving a bus to pass some cyclists can be a real pain.
In the city where I drive most often, very few cyclists wait for traffic lights to change (just sit outside the station any evening and watch them all flood across a 5-way lights controlled junction illegally).
The other annoying location in my area is where the footpath is a designated cycle lane, is regularly swept by the council and kept clear of obstructions, but most cyclists flatly refuse to use it and in my opinion put themselves in much more danger by using the narrow road carriageway instead. A part of me wants to get close to them here - USE THE CYCLEWAY PROVIDED . . .
While I'm not saying dealing with cyclists is easy, or that all cyclists are good, there are two problems.
One is the "oh, all cyclists are complete idiots, all 100% of them are total buffoons and they all go through red lights and none of them obey the rules of the road and they should all be banned they're all stupid raa raa raa" opinion that's already been displayed here.
The second is the facilities for them. A common compliant is that they don't use cycle lanes or shared use paths on the pavement. But if they have to keep giving way every 5 seconds each time it crosses a side road, they have a bumpy surface every driveway they go across and there's a dropped kerb, and they have to go weaving in an out of bins, bus shelters and lampposts just to go down the road, then they'll go on the road where they have a level surface and can go in a straight line.
Especially on really great pavement cycle lanes that just suddenly end in the middle of nowhere and then start up again somewhere else.
If we actually built dedicated cycle lanes that were fit for purpose, then we'd have less of a problem.
@Dennis Dash
Unfortunately the problem is often that cycleway is inferior to staying on the roads, in terms of both efficiency (ie speed/effort) and safety. Parallel cycleways are often shared with pedestrians (or at least with inadequate separation to stop pedestrisheep wandering aimlessly into it), often make cyclists give way to turning traffic, can be infested with street furniture and can often re-enter the road suddenly and without adequate deflection for traffic on the main carriageway.
So whether or not the highway engineers had good intentions, the end result is a cycle facility whose only positive outcome is to get those pesky cyclists off the road and give motorists unimpeded flow. Where that is the case (and I'm not saying it's ubiquitous, just very common), one can hardly blame the cyclists for not relinquishing their legal right to use the road when the alternative is substandard and more dangerous.
Yes, some give and take is needed. Where conditions prevent traffic from (safely) overtaking a cyclist for a long period, the cyclist is causing congestion and riding without due consideration for other road users, and should pull in or slow down for a moment to let the build up of traffic past – common courtesy and in the HC. But that doesn't happen simply by the juxtaposition of a cyclist and a traffic island just at the point where another vehicle wants to pass. If the driver has to momentarily slow down and follow the cyclist through a pinchpoint before overtaking then that is what he has to do, and any driver who is too impatient to do that and forces his way through is in the wrong, end of story.
Cyclists...road users or fast pedestrians on wheels?
If they use the road,make them pay for the infrastructure they use for free,make them have insurance,and get the Police to prosecute them when they flaunt the laws and rules of the road...you know,that stick with pretty coloured lights on has a purpose etc.
If they are not,they should act with more care towards anyone legally using the pavement...us on two feet. I'm a pedestrian,and getting cut up by speeding bikes is very annoying and dangerous.I suggest speed humps on the pavement.Or perhaps I should take to wearing a headcam and record the incidents...
Er, anonymous: cyclists pay income tax, national insurance, and VAT. There's no such thing as "road tax"- it was abolished in the 1930s- and the current road fund licence is just another general tax.
Also be careful for what you wish for: if there was a road tax "for what they use", cyclists would pay about £20 for the wear and tear they cause, morons in Range Rovers would pay about £2000 and PCV operators would pay about £2,000,000 per vehicle.
Well said David!
Can I just add that bikes are zero emission and if they were to be taxed as such they would pay zero VED, just like all electric and low polluting vehicles.
Also, the majority (I suspect) of cyclists are also car drivers...
I have commented on this type of thing and the main issue is that England is full of roads which aren't big enough for the traffic that uses them.
I believe that cyclists should now have some form of registration and third party insurance mainly for the way a minority treat pedestrians and that cycling on pavements is never acceptable and is sometimes tantamout to attempted assault.
To anyone who thinks I am anti-cyclist I am not.
Many drivers (cars mainly) treat cyclists dreadfully and do not give them enough space. If the other carriageway is clear I overtake as if I am overtaking a small car.
With regard to cycle lanes is there a prize for designing the most stupid? So many do not make sense or just look dangerous.
With regard to the videos posted - this is but one side of the story and there may be more to them
Finally to everyone - be carefull and courteous on the roads
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