“But there’s another problem as regards double decks and it’s one we’ll discover shortly…”And that refers to the stairs themselves. In the home, stairs are the place where most deaths and serious injuries occur. Older people are most at risk on stairs and more than 100,000 are treated for injuries every year. Of these, more than half end up in hospital with serious injuries.
Slightly steeper but still straight stairs at the front of the NB4L
The added complication on a double deck is that the stairs are moving. Balance becomes an issue. I’m sure we can all remember mis-footing on double deck stairs or a driver having to pull up sharply while we were descending them. A month ago, an unfortunate woman near Watford fell down the stairwell. The reports are vaguely written but it seems the driver stopped to unload at a bus stop other than the usual one (it was blocked) and then moved forward when the designated stop became free or just caried on. Said woman, last off the bus, was propelled half way down the stairs. Upon hearing her screams, the driver anchored up and she completed the tumble to the very bottom.
Now, she’s calling for CCTV to be fitted to the stairwell and she’s suing Arriva, to boot, because it would seem the driver stopped twice (she claims against the rules), first at the wrong stand. Aside from the fact that it seems the driver was acting quite pragmatically, the issue is, how do drivers adequately police the stairs? With more and more operators recognising that passengers are more vulnerable when out of their seats, buses now tend to have signage advising passengers to wait till the bus stops before they get up. Assuming the periscope works or is not obstructed, a driver may still miss an upper deck laggard who doesn’t move till the bus stops, who gets onto the stair late when everyone else has cleared the bus or who takes the stairs cautiously.
Coupled with fewer seats downstairs (especially in London) that forces more people upstairs; and the voguish straight staircase; by driving off too early, there’s a propensity for more injury in the future.
Rear stairwell has a traditional twist
Straight staircases reduce the angle but they take up more lower deck seating space. In my experience, a sudden stop means inertia tends to propel passengers down them rather too quickly. Is this where the more traditional spiral might be advantageous? Instead of hastening your movement down the stairs, you tended to bang into the sidewall, which acts as a barrier. It’s interesting that the Wrightbus LT Class NBfL has a forward, straight stairwell (but at a more acute angle, it seems to me) but at the rear the staircase twists.
Stairs are dangerous in the home because of poor light and because people stupidly place objects on them, objects that slip. At least modern bus stairwells are light and trip free. And, here, the Borismaster scores even more by having glazed portions front and back. Perhaps this wasn’t by design but owing to elf ’n safety, innit.
i Watford Observer report
29 comments:
I am in my 30's tall and athletic, but I never feel safe on straight staircases as busing is correct, there is too far to fall with little to break the fall.
At least Stagecoach specify spiral staircases on their provisional fleets. I am correct in stating that Wrightbus refuse or did refuse to build 'deckers with them? Are there anyother big groups that use them for new builds?
Wait for the day when they need lifts to the top deck to comply with the disability act!
I'm a passenger now in my 60s and often descend when a bus is moving. I do this by holding tight! If I had luggage I would probably not go upstairs. Unless a driver is one of the rare racing drivers, it will be my fault if I fall.
Not quite on topic, but I well remember the way conductors bounded up and down between decks on the spiral staircases of Bristol FLFs, almost in one fluid movement. OK they were doing it all day every day, but I feel much safer on a tight spiral staircase than a long straight one.
As for CCTV, I know of one operator who repositioned the lens of one "anti-vandal" camera on his deckers to point down the stairs for just such instances as the one refered to.
lifts to the top deck? wait till we're forced to provide a 2:20 ramp!
1:20 that is
If the DD was invented in 2012, would H&S have prevented it ever getting to the production line?
I heard stannah stairlifts were working on a new DD...
At 67, I find bus stairs more difficult that I did at 57. So I simply allow more time and wedge my ample form against all available support. My local stop is just after a sharp corner, and staggering down is quite a challenge but one which I take with full knowledge and understanding of the difficulties.
Stop nannying and let people use their own judgement!
Re one comment above : it is very easy indeed to fall off stairlifts!
I always go upstairs and hope that I will always be able to!
The design of handrails and poles is often poor. I am tall and handrails can be too low for me going down. One batch of buses had a handy pole on the right hand side going down, which I could slide my hand down as I descended; the latest batch no longer has it so there is nothing to hold on to. I end up bracing myself with my arms (I am not a fat busbloke!) against the stair walls and not actually holding on to anything.
Pete: same here. At least you can lean on the wall when descending a spiral.
The NBfL surprised me, though. As with the original RM, someone who falls would be disgorged onto the road, while a straight staircase would at least leave them against the wall?
I actually find straight staircases better, there is something to hold on to either side and if going round a bend or a bumpy road it's far easier to hold on and stay on your feet.
If going around a corner I can normally get down straight staircases easily but on spiral ones no way,
The signs telling passengers to stay in their seat until the bus stops are all well and good, but only if the bus drivers actually pay attention. I've seen it once too many times where someone a little unsteady on a moving staircase presses the bell and waits for the bus to stop. The wannabe Jenson Button on the way to his next cigarette break doesn't see anyone and sails on by. And that's assuming there's actually a bell to press; on Go North East's buses there's one bell at the top of the stairs. Great if you're at the back.
In terms of staircase shape, I prefer the straight ones. The gradient is more shallow and, because of that, there's something to hold on both sides of the staircase. I find it much easier to get up and down the straight staircases on the E400s compared to the spiral ones that Stagecoach specify. Although there's a bit further to fall on a straight staircase, the tread depth and gradient makes it less likely to fall in the first place.
Spiral staircases on buses are far safer. Almost all double deckers used to have them and acidents were very rare. Straight staircase buses have a very poor safety record
I much prefer spiral staircases. Perhaps it's familiarity with them through the years but I find I go up and down them without being particularly conscious of it. That's not the case with straight staircases - there's such an large space to fall into that I do feel vulnerable whether the bus is moving or not. I'm not saying I take more or less care over one or the other type but straight staircases do feel significantly more dangerous.
"I actually find straight staircases better, there is something to hold on to either side and if going round a bend or a bumpy road it's far easier to hold on and stay on your feet"
As someone else said upthread, that's fine unless you are too tall for the handrails to be of any use.
I find me descending a straight staircase on a bus involves using the upstairs rail until I can no longer reach it, followed by a controlled fall.
Neil
I fully agree that spiral staircases are safer, for the simple reason that the maximum turn required whilst ascending or descending is 180 degrees. With a forward facing, straight staircase, most passengers will need to turn through 360 degrees to negotiate it.
There is also the fact that when descending, you are facing the opposite way to the direction of travel which can have a slightly disorientating effect...and suppose the driver stops at some lights before the bus stop and then pulls away sharpish, you are thrown downwards, so the 'safety' aspect of such a layout is doubtful.
But where does all this end? No doubt operators are ever mindful of the 'No Win - No Fee' claim culture which has blighted our society in recent years but where does the nannying stop?
Stay indoors, it's not safe to be out.
Ban everything, it's not safe to be alive!
One of the *big* issues that the bus industry (regulated or otherwise) has failed to come to grips with is passenger comfort, and the way it is affected by both vehicle design and driver behaviour. There's not much that can be done in the case of an emergency stop, but I believe that many of the problems with stairs (and general moving about inside buses) could be alleviated by smoother acceleration and braking (i.e. lower jerk rates). I've had enough of jumpy gearboxes, biting brakes and drivers with only two speed settings. And I suspect one of the reasons why conductors were able to bound up and down stairs was that the vehicles of that era were simply incapable of throwing people about in the way that modern buses can!
There is a simply way to stop drivers suddenly going whilst a slower person is descending the stairs, you add touch sensitive pressure strips to the stair treads (London buses already have these on the edges of the rear doors (each door leaf) so the interlock serving multiple sensors is already installed.
Of course just oberserving the stairs is cheaper
I'm used to the older style of straight staircase on London Buses but I have nearly fallen down them on several occasions. I struggle to take shopping bags up and down those stairs especially if the bus is moving. London doesn't employ the "press bell and stay in your seat" philosophy. If you aren't at the door or heading towards it you'll not get off unless the bus is very busy and the dwell time is long.
The most recent design of handrail on LFDD stairs is dreadful as they split halfway down and I have caught my fingers on the "fixings", that attach the rail to the bodywork, many times. Whoever designed or specified that handrail clearly does not use buses. Worse still there are other designs where the handrail is split into two sections so you have to let go while descending the stairs - stupid!
On the rare occasions I use curved staircases I find them difficult to use because the step depths are bigger and the whole staircase environment is very tight. This is especially pronounced on buses in HK or Singapore where there are still high numbers of buses with curved stairs. I've only used the NB4L rear staircase once and found it OK but it was at Victoria so perhaps not the best test. Strangely I never found Routemaster stairs to be a problem.
Hey! How about articulated buses. We could call them 'bend buses'. No stairs to climb!
Bendy buses were a failed experimentin London. Far tomany problems with them. The DD works well and the Routmasters staircases never caused any problems
"Older people are most at risk on stairs and more than 100,000 are treated for injuries every year."
Interesting statistic, but can it be qualified - e.g. is it the UK only, and where were the stairs? I don't think for one minute that they were all on buses.
The bendy buses alternative was clearly in jest. Actually the buses themselves didn't fail as a concept, it was their stupid only pay if an inspector gets on ticket policy, (where you could still touch in further down the bus if an inspector boarded as they didn't instantly suspend the validation whilst inspectors were on board). Of course the new Borismasters have 3 doors, and choose if youwant to touch in. Why repeat a failed idea
Local Wilts and Dorset Scanias are not my favourites for staircase. First step is quite deep and whilst one hand rail follows stair line, the opposite is vertical quite awkward.
Other local Bournemouth Yellow Buses have straight rails on both sides, which are far easier to manage.
I am 75, fit but sometimes a little unsteady.
How many of the accidents on bus stairs are caused by passengers doing other things like chatting on their mobile while moving around the bus and going up and down the stairs? While carrying shopping bags as well...
It never ceases to amaze me how people's conversations can be so engrossing that they can't stop talking for 5 seconds...
Anyone know who actually determined that straight staircases were a supposed improvement over the traditional spiral staircase ?
Very short-sighted to get rid of the articulated buses in London as they can move massive numbers efficiently. They're an ideal vehicle for specific routes, but the fare collection policy needs to be robust.
I'm amazed that the new London bus has the same (poor) arrangements.
"I'm amazed that the new London bus has the same (poor) arrangements."
As am I. Might it not make sense for the conductor to periodically close the rear platform and go and do a ticket check?
Neil
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