In a recent comment, Neil said,
“Can’t help but think it’s a waste of time anyone investing in [web sites & new technology] now that the data’s increasingly in Google Maps. As it holds a pretty good set of Traveline South East and rail data, it’s now my journey planner of choice”It seems a number of local transport authorities are warning Google users about the new public transport option within Google Transit [last reviewed here in 2007] and Google Maps. Nexus, for example, states that Google gets it right only one time in every seven. For the six, either the data are incomplete or the results are “silly”. Nexus is referring people to its own website or Traveline instead. Let’s trust that these sites are actually better!
Enter Google via Maps by clicking Get directions...
Google has the ability to produce a truly national journey planner. Currently, you have National Rail plus Transport Direct on the one hand and, on the other, a plethora of regional Traveline sites, each with its unique interface. Some look smart (e.g. Traveline Cymru). Others, less so. Some produce the goods, others less so.
Store My places; select car, public transport or walking; chose or save your location if desired; enter date, time and where to... and GET DIRECTIONS. Simple one screen
If efficient, Google could offer a new, single national bus and rail standard. It has the potential.- It’s clear
- It’s uncluttered and clean
- You can set a default location and store other places for easy reference
- It’s available on a smart phone
- You can use it for journeys by car, by “public transportation” (whatever *that* is) and on foot
- You can access it via Google Maps by clicking the “Get Directions” button or plunge straight in via Google Transit.
Google.com/transit defaults to Europe but uses the American date and time standard (3rd November rather than 11th March)... whereas Google.co.uk/transit goes British, aside from the reference to Transportation...
So, what’s the beef? One issue with Google is that it isn’t fully nationwide, quite yet. It seems to have all (most?) of the rail data within itself, thanks to the independent The Train Line. Bus timetables are lacking except where Google is getting data from a local Traveline partner. But is Google interpreting things right? Here are three tests. No apologies for starting in Dorset!Poole to Wimborne Minster
There’s no rail option for this journey and the bus data haven’t been loaded. Wilts & Dorset isn’t yet party to Google Transit. Google can’t plan this journey unless you drive (or, I suppose, walk) it.
Lymington to Totton nr Southampton (searching for 1040 departure on weekdays)
Google has data for this journey but only for rail so, as a consequence, Google sends you on a weekday journey at 1040 from Lymington to Totton via the train (because Totton has a railway station):
- Walk to Lymington station (6 mins)
- Train to Brockenhurst (9 mins)
- Connect
- Train to Totton (14 mins)
- Walk from Totton station to Totton (14 mins).
Traveline SW is better. It gives several options, including the train but its no. 1 choice is the best method: W&D Bluestar’s service 6.
Service 6 is operated by Bluestar, not W&D. That said, Bluestar is effectively eastern W&D and the Lymington workings are from a W&D garage... but the public may not know that
Alternatively, you could go direct to the Bluestar timetable page. You need to know the operator and at least the home page address. But once there, you see a proper timetable and it tells you that you can travel direct between Lymington and Totton in 57 minutes. Simples.High Wycombe to Maidenhead (searching for 1040 departure on weekdays)
Now, I know neither High Wycombe nor Maidenhead well but I’ve picked these two because Google has bus data available, via Traveline South East. I’m fairly confident that rail isn’t an easy option as it requires a minimum of two changes.
In Google, type in High Wycombe and Maidenhead, ensuring you’ve clicked the public transportation (rail) symbol. Select a time and date on the same screen and that really is it. Ta da! There’s your journey, including a splendid annotated Google map.
Maindenhead (Berks) defaults to Linden Surgery
But on Traveline, the default for Maidenhead is Linden Surgery. Where is that in relation to the town centre? At least there is a Map button to click. On Google, I don’t get any options: when I type in Maidenhead, I get no choice. Indeed, presumably because Google is driven by adverting, the location Google wants me to reach is “public transport directions to Tenpin Ltd”. This turns out to be some way from the centre of things but may be good if I have my grand-sons with me.Google Transit sends you to High Wycombe High Street stop R for 1042. Two minutes from the bus station is a reasonable estimate. It then drops you at 1127 outside St Joseph’s church for a three-minute walk, arriving Maidenhead at 1130, five minutes ahead of Arriva’s actual 1135 arrival. But that’s at Tenpin Ltd, not downtown Maidenhead.
Traveline presentation is not as good as Google. But it does offer options
Traveline SE (who uses enthusiasts to check its data) sends you to High Wycombe High Street stop R for 1042, as above and drops you at 1123 at Furze Platt with a 12-minute walk to the default Maidenhead Linden Surgery. This turns out to be even further away from the action.Better to try the Arriva timetable, IMO, if you know the operator and service number. A bus no. 37 departs 1040 from the bus station. There’s no time at the high street but it arrives at Maidenhead Bridge Avenue 1135. Hoorah!
15 comments:
I like it, an article based on my comments - and a well-detailed one as well. :)
Google has one other key advantage - it's on my phone. Traveline has an antiquated UI that doesn't work well on mobiles, and the mobile version was at last count not fully functional (just a departure board I think), same with Transport Direct.
The Google results aren't perfect, of course - but equally it's highlighted options before that I wouldn't ever have thought of otherwise.
Put both together, and I use it a lot.
Neil
Journey planners only really work if you know what answer you are looking for. I am glad that "Neil" uses it a lot, but it would be good to hear of his huge travelling successes.
Perhaps journey planners are like dogs; they wag their tales enthusiastically at those who like them and growl threateningly at those who don't.
I wouldn't trust a journey planner without cross referencing with operators web sites, a good map and some reliable local knowledge.
The latter is becoming impossible to obtain!
The Google map annotations are just point to point between stops. That might be OK for bus maps, but it's ridiculous on railways where the line drawn on is in a completely different place to where the railway actually is.
Testing it around my area, I see it wants me to walk into town along a major dual carriageway with no pavements, and then cross a major traffic light system and get run over. Now, I know not to walk that way, but any visitors wouldn't. The first part of it starts off rather innocently - before all the grass verges disappear.
The Google map annotations are just point to point between stops. That might be OK for bus maps, but it's ridiculous on railways where the line drawn on is in a completely different place to where the railway actually is.
Testing it around my area, I see it wants me to walk into town along a major dual carriageway with no pavements, and then cross a major traffic light system and get run over. Now, I know not to walk that way, but any visitors wouldn't. The first part of it starts off rather innocently - before all the grass verges disappear.
I like Google Transit very much - I only hope that North West Traveline get their finger out and provide some bus information for my region. Suspect it may take a while - Mersey Valley data has a reputation for being incomplete or duplicated thanks to the plethora of transport authorities, in one case with cross-boundary journeys stopping at the border (yes, I'm talking about you Merseytravel!)
Neil,
Re Traveline's mobile version, it depends which Traveline region you're talking about.
Traveline Cymru has a nice little app which includes a journey planner, at stop departures, park & ride info, links to Traffic Wales, operator contact numbers and a news page.
Sounds good. That's one reason why I think there should have been one Traveline system from day one. More investment into one system -> a better system.
And why duplicate it with Transport Direct?
While 9292ov.nl is not the world's best journey planner, the Dutch have the right idea of *only having one*.
Interesting that you use Nexus' comments about Google, Busing. Nexus are using Google map data for their latest online offering "my journey", which purports to record every bus stop in Tyne and Wear and provide timetable information.
http://myjourney.nexus.org.uk/
Where it works it really works; the stop at the end of my street is listed and I can download a pdf of the timetable sheet straight from the website.
It doesn't work on mobiles though...
As for google, generally it gives better options than Transport Direct, which last time I used it reckoned I could walk Jesus-style across the Tyne without any using any trivial luxuries like a bridge. Although google transit for a journey from my house to Sunderland reckons I should "drive or take a taxi". Hmm.
Pretty much all, if not all of TLSW's data is on TLSE, and with routes' maps too, that are able to show all stops. I'm beginning to prefer TLSE.
The only online journey planner that I've found that I would really rate is Xephos, but unfortunately a lack of funding/sponsorship has meant that it has fallen off the radar. While this never got as sophisticated as postcode level data or route maps, and the quality of data can be a little patchy in places, its simplicity and ease of use, and the accuracy of its route-finding algorithm, are superb, and light years better than TransportIndirect or any Traveline site that I've had the misfortune to suffer.
I still feel traveline could succeed if they would only share the same hymn book.There are a few of their staff who have the expertise to carry it forward.Regrettably there seems to be a few duffers on board.
Ken Traveline Dorset here.
Traveline South West has now joined in with the South East/London/East Midlands/Anglia merged data set that should allow you to plan across all those regions from any of those regional sites.
Hi Ken . Yes I wish the rest would join in.Your area is much improved.West Midland is awful has not changed since its introduction.
I feel you were perhaps being a bit unfair to both Google Transit and Traveline SE by mis-spelling Maidenhead in your query. As your caption correctly states, ‘Maindenhead (Berks) defaults to Linden Surgery’. I understand that this is because if Traveline cannot find an exact match for an entry in its list of localities, it tries to find the ‘best match’ amongst its list of bus stops, addresses and points of interest. Presumably, as the stop at ‘Maidenhead, Linden Surgery’ contains both of the letter sequences ‘denhead’ and ‘inden’, it is seen as the best option. One side-effect of this approach is that you can get away with abbreviating frequently used entries quite aggressively in Traveline SE, e.g. for Colchester Bus Station to Chelmsford Bus Station, you can get away with entering ‘colc bus’ to ‘chel bus’..
The results from Google Transit are slightly different, as it seems that ‘Maindenhead’ is quite a common mis-spelling, which already appears in their database. In particular, Tenpin Bowling have made this mistake at some point – see link at http://www.kgbanswers.co.uk/address-and-the-phone-number-for-tenpin-bowling-in-maidenhead/17699143
As a result, Tenpin Bowling appears top of Google’s search for ‘Maindenhead’, which is where their journey plan takes you.
If you change the entry to ‘Maidenhead’, both Google Transit and Traveline will take you to the stop in Maidenhead High Street, adjacent to Market Street. So IMO, both of these would give a superior result to the Arriva timetable, which gives no information about which other stops are served in the Town Centre apart from Frascati Way and Bridge Avenue. In contrast, both Google Transit and Traveline enable you to view the street map of the area to understand exactly where the bus will drop you off.
I have never used Google for public transport before, how reliable is it when it comes to bus times?
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