This is a guest post by Dangermouse. Omnibuses welcomes contributions
As most of us know First UK Bus is going through a number of high profile changes that, hopefully, will improve the company’s profile. But certain subsidiaries within the group may need much more work than others. One of these is likely to be First Edinburgh, Scotland, which requires major surgery to get the operations back into a healthy and profitable state. And not just there, in Glasgow and Aberdeen, too.
First Edinburgh already has some great people within the company, including some new young managers, one of whom is now actually traveling on the buses.
Unfortunately, there is no magic wand that can fix the issues that have plagued the company over the past decade. Some of the problems are also linked to decisions taken by its head office. First Edinburgh will need to consider:
- Fleet investment
- Size of the company. It has been suggested that it could be spilt (i.e. Borders and Edinburgh area, with Livingston, Linlithgow, Larbert and Stirling being the other area)
- The biggest problem of them all: the fares, which really are at the top level of the scale; and it’s not just the singles either, the day and weekly tickets along with zonal fares all need a close examination if not a complete overhaul.
This list seems an insurmountable one. On the plus side, because of the enthusiasm inside the Larbert head office, they’ve already made a good start in considering a number of ideas and the recent absorption of the Nordi Travel in West Lothian has taken First into new operational areas.
Of all the First subsidiaries to consider, First Edinburgh will be the most important benchmark. It will be interesting to take a look periodically over the coming year to see whether First is able to Transform its Edinburgh operations.
As for fares, First in its recent drive to improve matters had promised to consider these carefully. In recessionary Britain, it’s now between a rock and a hard place: cutting fares may seem appealing to those who use the service but is it a gamble too far, at the moment?
34 comments:
Gosh! Managers actually travelling on their buses!! Whatever next?!
If First have only just cottoned-on that this might be a good idea, they are deeper doo-doo than I'd imagined.
Back in the Halcyon days of Sheffield Transport Department, their senior traffic man, P D Baggaley, actually walked any proposed new routes personally! Schedules and "traffic" office staff were all required to do occasional Saturdays on "outside traffic" to observe, assist and learn.
Perhaps all bus company staff (including senior directors), should be banned under contract from using their cars to get to work?
There is no substitute for getting out there and finding out where your buses go. Just in finding out where they go you find a lot of information you would never learn in the office.
I've worked for a company where customer service people had no knowledge of the locations they served, and as a result, weren't able to effectively handle complaints.
It should be an essential part of any office based person's induction to a company, it was insisted upon in one company I worked and I took it upon myself to learn the network in others I've worked in since. It helps when you know more about where things go than the local Ops Manager...
For a start hey could also try posting their Christmas timetables on their website, and not just a summary. And occasionally repainting their buses would be good - they moved some buses up from South Wales, but left the Welsh language slogans on the sides, just so everyone knew they were getting cast-offs! More comfortable seats on longdistance hauls from the Borders. Etc.
The area is not very promising. Excluding the area around Edinburgh, dominated by Lothian, they have a small population (maybe 0.5 million) spread over a large number of towns and villages.
Personally I would give up trying to compete with Lothian, which would surely improve the bottom line, and allow them to scrap their oldest buses, and smarten up the rest of the operation. Even if you are mediocre, there is no need to look it. If Stagecoach can make money in Fife, as I assume they do, First should be able to do the same in Central Scotland.
Seems to be major problems with the compny. Fares 50% to high and a very old fleet of buses. Clearly there is something very wrong with the companies costs base which would appear to be indirect costs are way to high and there must also be aserious inefficiencies as to how they are operating the actual service.
They have to get costs down and improve standards
First bus are not alone with not publishing proper christmas timetable information , Stagecoach have done the same you get the unhelfull information such as Christmas Eve , no evning service
Does not suprise me though. Bus companies have no concept of customer service. They have been told time and time again to provide proper inmformation but it is just two fingers up to their customers
A double treat from Mr Glum!
"A double treat from Mr Glum!"
He's right about information, though. "No services on Christmas Eve evening" is a useless statement to anyone wanting to travel after mid-afternoon on that day.
What they need to plan and say is something like "Services departing their point of origin after 1900 on Christmas Eve will not operate", or if it's not possible to codify it in that way they need to produce a separate leaflet detailing what they are doing by route.
Try First fares on ZIP in Portsmouth. If you are lucky enough that your bus isn't cancelled, when it does finally show up late it'll be dirty inside and out, the driver will be rude(sorry specially trained in customer service!) and you'll need to rob the bank to pay the fare.
"He's right about information, though. "No services on Christmas Eve evening" is a useless statement to anyone wanting to travel after mid-afternoon on that day."
Can't speak for any other areas but the Stagecoach South website certainly has this covered, with a special section for the early finish nights (Christmas Eve/New Years Eve).
By the by, it also appears they're running a special N700 around Worthing and through to Brighton on Boxing Day too.
Triple treat from Mr Glum who travels on a different ZIP route to everyone else in Portsmouth!
Fares - a return for £4 something on a return trip of almost 30 miles is bloody good value for money in my book, clearly Mr Glum has never travelled on Stagecoach from Portsmouth over an equivalent distance - it was over £6.50 last time I travelled and a return was absurdly more than the day ticket! If you want to travel a bit further for rip off fares try a short hop over to the IoW!
Cancelled and late buses - not in my regular experience and if you want to check it out yourself there is now a helpful real time map online at www.zipbus.co.uk - just checked, cannot find a cancelled or late bus (well more than 5 mins) anywhere!
Dirty buses - sometimes yes but no worse than any other operator I've experienced and not so dirty I'd prefer to stand rather than sit
Rude drivers - not particularly although the assault screens don't help, can't imagine the chances of the driver coping a punch in leafy Clanfield is high but perhaps it is in downtown Portsmouth?
Robbing the bank? Get real! Lucky to find many bus routes nowadays where you can travel so far for less than a fiver! Some people need a reality check.
IMO it appears that in some groups (I can't speak for all) many depot/district managers tend to get moved around every year or so. This adds to the lack of knowledge and if within 'commuting distance' use of car instead of bus. They may gain experience but don't have experience of the local network which is essential when planning changes and dealing with the public.
When I started, many years ago, all traffic staff were required to obtain a PSV and also have a stint as a conductor, on one man operation and with an Inspector. Then you helped out with staff buses, industrial holiday weeks and for major private hires. That was before you were in any position to make decisions.
First Edinburgh are unusual in not publicising details of their Christmas services. A quick look at First's websites for Hampshire, Leicester, Staffs and South Yorkshire finds that they all have a summary page with links to details.
Should have read 'traffic office staff' in previous comment
Given its an unbelievable £3.40 single from just before Waterlooville to Cosham (under 4 miles) is such a bargain and I'd love to know where your £4 return fare is between! Also the realtime info has never been accurate since day 1 which is why the real time departure screens in many of the bus stops have been covered up. You can defend First Pompey all you like but ask the passengers who have deserted them so much that frequencies have gone down since ZIP started so it's hardly increased patronage! Also First manage great timetable coordination between the 3 buses between Waterlooville and Cosham where on Saturdays the 40, 41 and 45 don't form an even service running at 17, 19, 35, 37, 39, 57, 58, 59! So 8 buses an hour and still a 16 and 2 18 minute gaps,great planning. However given the late running and cancellations the theory we all have is that if we turn up for the 57 past at least 1 of the 3 buses due in 2 minutes may show up by 5 past. Its sad when to get to Pompey the only safe way is to go via Havant because at least Stagecoach run and run reliably and with friendly drivers that have taken the time to get to know regulars too.
To the person who refers to any negative comment about First to be from Mr Glum (ie Me apparently!) my first post today was at 1311 and so apparently I'm not as alone in my views about First's appalling efforts at running a bus company as you think. Also given First are currently attempting to nationally rebrand themselves (to detract attention from the name First because of its bad reputation) and they themselves have acknowledged they have MAJOR issues nationwide I would argue I'm not Mr Glum I'm Mr Realistic and you are Mr Delusional. Quite honestly its people like you within First who believe they can do no wrong that have got them in this mess in the first place. Luckily there is starting to be a change in attitude at higher levels within First and so hopefully we'll see a big improvement as currently they are a national embarrassment.
To anon at 1311, £3.40 for a single of under 4 miles is still 'cheap' in comparison to other operators, Bluestar charge just under £6 single for equivalent distances whilst the IoW starts at around £5. As I've said before Stagecoach fares are also higher except where they run in competition and peg their fares at the same or just below.
Also, please explain where frequencies on the ZIP have reduced? I've been travelling since 1998 on the route and its always run at 15 minutes throughout the day.
The new real time system seems to work very well based on my regular travelling experience, normally six returns per week. I check the time for the next bus at my local stop on leaving the office and its usually there in a minute or two of the time it said
As for departures from Waterlooville, how can you coordinate headways on routes that go different ways to different destinations taking different lengths of time to get there? If your going Waterlooville > Havant > Portsmouth then you sir are a fool, spending half your life trundling around the delights of Leigh Park!
You come across as a stooge for another bus company every time you post, I may not be a fan of First and rightly criticise when they get things wrong but your claims dont match the reality of the route.
Anon @ 1311; you must be in a parallel universe to me. I travel from Waterlooville to North End 6 days a week; most journeys are on time (or close to) despite the horrendous traffic in Pompey. Buses in the morning are invariably clean; less so in the evening (but only with the cr*p the wonderful British public has deposited there during the day)!
As for fares, the period ticket I use is cheaper than the Stagey equivalent; First is much cheaper, and provides a much better service for journeys on that route.
As for travelling via Leigh Park and Havant on Stagecoach, words fail me! You cannot be serious; it would take at least twice as long! First don't always get it right but on the Zip routes they do more often than not. I don't work for First; I'm just a satisfied customer!!
Can't believe that riding on the buses is supposed to be a major invention. Was this a joke comment?
First in Scotland seems to have lost the plot many years ago. Why not just let Brian Souter take it all on ?
Between a rock and a hard place looks accurate for First Edinburgh. If the operation makes a loss and fares are too high, the only sensible solution seems to be to slim down and concentrate on the best corridors - which would no doubt attract much criticism from the areas no longer served.
Stagecoach seem to provide a decent service in the Highlands with a modern fleet - does this provide hope for First Edinburgh?
The 40 and 41 were always coordinated prior to the disaster of zip between Cosham and Waterlooville. This non-coordination is even worse on evenings and sundays and such routes are often coordinated elsewhere in the country over the main common section. I agree going via Havant may seem crazy as it is much much longer but then again going via Havant is not much slower after one 41 is cancelled and the next is 20mins away and very late at the weekend. When you think what the frequency and service provision was prior to zip with slows to Pompey and frequent fasts via the A3(M) the service is MUCH worse.
"When you think what the frequency and service provision was prior to zip with slows to Pompey and frequent fasts via the A3(M) the service is MUCH worse."
Only 20 minutes slower going via Havant? Don't know what timetable you are looking at! The Stagey services trundle around Leigh Park for an eternity before you get to Havant then you have to wait for the 700 if you want to get to Pompey in less than an hour. Oh and the 700 was reduced in frequency too!
The 41 route gets new buses every 4-5 years, hardly a sign of a failing route with declining passengers as you claim.
The 41 has been running its route (with the exception of the move from Lake Rd to Kingston Crescent) for as long as I've been using it, 13 years. During that time the weekday frequency has always been 15mins whilst the weekend frequency has increased to 20mins. During this time the only route Stagey ran that went the same way has been cut back so no longer serves Portsmouth. So whatever routing you are describing dates back to pre-1998 and probably pre-First, if you want an express motorway service from Waterlooville use the X42 - that'll be another new route adding more buses between Waterlooville and Portsmouth by this failing operator !
Case in point - yesterday in Glasgow. Single on First Riversider bus from City Centre to Riverside Museum - £2.50. Same journey back on SPT Subway - £1.20.
Maybe SPT's product is underpriced, but that's the market First operate in.
The X42 was only added by First in retaliation against the council for awarding Stagecoach the tender for the Havant-Crookhorn-QA-Pompey express to cream off the Crookhorn/QA-Pompey traffic. It directly competes only they knew they wouldn't get any passengers so they had to divert via Waterlooville. Also this does not use the A3(M) unlike the old services. Also prior to that tender being awarded First had completely abandoned (except for a couple of peak journeys) any Waterlooville-Pompey Motorway service claiming that it wasn't needed as ZIP would be just as quick when actually ZIP is much slower. The new buses are part of the ZIP contract with the council and so are nothing to do with patronage or a desire from First to invest in new buses. Also the weekend frequency of ZIP was REDUCED to every 20 from every 15 not increased.
As for Havant lets look shall we:
Waterlooville 1013 arr Hard 1111 on 37/700
Waterlooville 1017 arr Hard 1058 on Zip
So 17minutes longer.
The reverse is 1054 arr 1208 on 700/39 vs 1051 arr 1134 on ZIP so 31mins slower which I agree is much longer but at least runs.
Anon 1050: So you'd rather use Stagecoach 700 via Havant connecting to the 37 which runs once an hour (and is notoriously unreliable at peak times) rather than use the First direct route using high quality 09 reg Volvo B7BLEs which runs every 15 minutes weekdays (every 20 weekends)and is by your own admission between 15-30 minutes quicker (even before you add on the waiting time because the Stagecoach buses are much less frequent). The words cutting of your nose to spite your face spring to mind.
I admire Stagecoach (though not Souter) but the whole basis of your argument is frankly preposterous and laughable. First Hampshire do a decent job in trying conditions in Pompey (Stagecoach's 20/1 and 23s bunch just as much as First's frequent services); the 700s generally don't bunch because they only run every 30 minutes (but unsurprisingly on such a long route timekeeping is very patchy).
At least First provide a service in the evenings; Stagecoach don't bother!
Stop wasting folk's time with your anti-First obsession please.
Even with the "new era" of First, under the surface there is no change, in fact I'm told it is worse than it was before !
"The X42 was only added by First in retaliation against the council for awarding Stagecoach the tender for the Havant-Crookhorn-QA-Pompey express to cream off the Crookhorn/QA-Pompey traffic."
Absolute rubbish - the route 20 is an entirely commercial service provided by stagecoach. Both the First X42 and Stagey 20 service are provided commercially introduced when QA became the super hospital for the region. No tenders or contracts involved.
"Also the weekend frequency of ZIP was REDUCED to every 20 from every 15 not increased."
Rubbish again, the Saturday service was every 20 miutes so no change, the Sunday service was every 30 minutes so that is an INCREASE.
"As for Havant lets look shall we:
Waterlooville 1013 arr Hard 1111 on 37/700
Waterlooville 1017 arr Hard 1058 on Zip
So 17minutes longer.
The reverse is 1054 arr 1208 on 700/39 vs 1051 arr 1134 on ZIP so 31mins slower which I agree is much longer but at least runs."
The 37 runs once an hour having been cut back by Stagey from serving Pompey and the 700 runs every 30mins cut back from every 15 mins so that connection works once an hour. What choice do you have for the other 59 minutes? Well the alternative is to trundle around Leigh Park on the 39 for an eternity then trundle around Leigh Park again for an eternity on a 20 or 21 finally reaching Portsmouth about 2 hours later.
Stagecoach have cut back the 37 and 700 in recent years but you don't criticise that eh?
The 700 is notoriously unreliable having come all the way from Brighton, so unreliable most locals stick to the slower but more frequent 21 and 23. The 21 and 23 regularly bunch together as Stagecoach have not monitoring or control in Portsmouth.
Sorry I meant to say QA are helping to fund the 20 after turning down First's proposal. The 700 normally goes back to every 30 during winter and also the council not Stagecoach cancelled the Portsmouth-Waterlooville bit due to it effectively competing with ZIP and so the compromise was to combine the Petersfield to Waterlooville bit with the existing 37 albeit at half the frequency which I agree is not good...although Stagecoach will argue they increased the 39 frequency at the same time although that doesn't help Cowplain etc.
As for First you all skip over the fact they cancelled the X40 and X41 which ran every 15 mins each via the Motorway all day and so overall Pompey-Waterlooville frequency is MUCH lower as the 41 and 40 were barely changed. I am all for bus priority when done right but ZIP is a unmitigated disaster that has not produced the predicted passenger growth and is certainly not helped by First running it.
"Sorry I meant to say QA are helping to fund the 20 after turning down First's proposal."
Wrong again, QA Hospital do NOT fund the 20, they are a hospital so why would they want to fund bus routes? As I said before the 20 is entirely commercial.
"The 700 normally goes back to every 30 during winter"
The frequency reduced before the winter and I'll bet money it doesn't go back to every 15 minutes next year as Stagey have redeployed the vehicles elsewhere permanently.
"As for First you all skip over the fact they cancelled the X40 and X41 which ran every 15 mins each via the Motorway all day and so overall Pompey-Waterlooville frequency is MUCH lower as the 41 and 40 were barely changed."
I've been travelling on the route for 13 years and never in that time has there been the X40 and X41 running at every 15 minutes, the X40 and X41 has only ever been an occasional peak time only service in all that time I've known the routes. So prey tell us when the lucky residents of Wecock Farm and Clanfield effectively had a bus every 7.5 minutes with this mythical 15 mins express plus the every 15 mins 40/41?
"I am all for bus priority when done right but ZIP is a unmitigated disaster that has not produced the predicted passenger growth and is certainly not helped by First running it."
Please evidence this claim? As far as I am aware passenger figures are not published on a route by route basis. I travel regularly and the buses are well loaded justifying new vehicles every 4-5 years so clearly they must be doing something right.
So we've now established the buses aren't dirty, are generally reliable, fares aren't as expensive as neighbouring operators, drivers aren't all rude, the route gets regular investment in new vehicles, the frequency has actually increased in the past ten years, hospitals don't fund competitive bus routes, Stagecoach have cut back on routes and it in't quicker to travel via Havant - anything else you want to be shot down over or are you off to sit in a dark room my friend?
The biggest problem that First Edinburgh have is the competition posed by Lothian Buses. Not only do Lothian have very high standards for their fleet – most are Volvo B7s and B9s under 10 years old, with a high proportion under 2 years old – but they have remarkably low fares, with a £1.30 flat rate single even on journeys that are over an hour end-to-end.
Yes, First's fares are often higher than other operators, but when they are placed in such stark side-by-side contrast, it really does highlight the difference between them and the more passenger-focused operators.
First Edinburgh is already split into two operations:
First Edinburgh with depots at:
Livingston, Musselburgh, Dalkeith and North Berwick.
Midland Bluebird Ltd with depots at:
Galashiels, Hawick, Linlithgow, Larbert, Bannockburn and Balfron.
Both the Edinburgh and Glasgow companies are also regulated by the Competition Commission as follows:
Competition Commission Undertakings No. 6 of 2004 given to the Competition Commission by FirstGroup plc, First Edinburgh Limited, First Glasgow (No. 1) Limited, First Glasgow (No. 2) Limited and First ScotRail Limited.
Refers to controls place on First Edinburgh and First Glasgow on bus services which parallel rail services. If First wish to vary any of these routes they have to get permission from the Competition Commission.
Certain variations have taken place since the original set of undertakings was agreed with the CC
Undertakings given pursuant to section 88 of the Fair Trading Act 1973 following the acquisition by FirstBus plc of SB Holdings Limited
In this document the rate and level of fares increases was and still is determined by the Competition Commission. Also an undertaking was given in 2002 that both First Edinburgh and First Glasgow would continue to operate commercially, around 85% of the total local bus mileage operated in 2002. This was varied in 2008 to 75%.
For some indication of control look at:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/mergers_ea02/Undertakings-2011/first-scotrail-comparison.pdf
Please cancel last post and substitute the following:
For some indication of control see:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/mergers/register/final-undertakings/FirstGroup
Leaving the whole undertaking issue to one side, the impact of which is worthy of it's own discussion, the First Bus subsidiaries in Scotland need to move away from what appears to be a 'reactive' approach to decision making and planning. Glasgow, in particular, hasn't introduced anything that could be considered innovative for some time with most developments being a tinkering of existing arrangements. If First wants to go forward maybe it needs to engage with the customers on a slightly broader level, and gain a better understanding of what they want through a form of public consultation, at least then they know what kind of questions they need to provide answers to.
Post a Comment