Southern Vectis operates its service 1 every 7½ minutes twixt Newport and Cowes. There are occasions when the Mini Pointer Darts cannot cope with loadings, at least as far as the Newport suburbs and the hospital. Swapping to a bigger bus is nevertheless impossible. Upon arrival at Cowes, the service has to negotiate a tight manoeuvre from the highway, under an archway, into the Red Jet terminal and out again via an equally narrow passage. How tight? Take a look at these shots. Not sure I'd like to make this turn regularly.
Friday, 28 October 2011
Tight Squeeze
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21 comments:
Nearly as bad is the turn from Old Steine, Brighton into Pool Valley bus station. However, there's a nice and wide road to get a better position than in Cowes.
Although it's no longer used as a bus station, Pool Valley is still home to the longest National Express coaches!
I "ticked" the Cowes terminal a few years ago, and the driver told me that he didn't look at the entrance, but at a marker on the opposite wall. At 2MPH, that told him exactly when to turn the steering wheel to "spin" the bus into the exact position necessary.
For once "Awesome" is actually the right word!! We can all think of some tight spots (agreed in re Old Steine into Pool Valley), but this one (IMHO) is the tightest!
Perhaps the buses could terminate away from the ferry yard,say at the Co-op shop,and passengers could walk the short distance to/from the ferries ?
Failing that, it looks like that dividing wall separating pedestrians from buses is quite thick, so perhaps it could be rebuilt to allow more swing ?
I'm sure all ideas have been looked at, but what is the ideal solution?
Or perhaps the best option is the one that currently exists, and bus enthusiasts are trying to fix a problem that's not actually there.
Expecting passengers to walk any sort of distance of note when changing modes is a surefire way to annoy them.
Ferries run every 7.5 minutes, do they?
I just love the little bollard on the pavement, just to make the turn that little bit harder.
I just wish I was the authorised spare parts dealer for ADL on the Isle of Wight...
Although anonymous does make a point: do they all have to go into the ferry terminal?
Then there's the tight fit through the arch in Gib . . .
"For once "Awesome" is actually the right word!! We can all think of some tight spots (agreed in re Old Steine into Pool Valley), but this one (IMHO) is the tightest!"
Indeed. I've used it once and was amazed.
I'm surprised they don't switch the routes around, either stopping outside the yard or serving it with a different route using smaller buses. But I guess even with the regular damage (look at the scrapes on the wall!) it must be the cheapest option.
Neil
1) No, do not turn at the Co-op instead as passengers do not want to walk, as it's up a hill, they may have luggage from the ferry, it's convient and super public transport interchange (something people are always on about in the comments here) to go right to the ferry (especially in bad weather), some elderly people really struggle with the walk and the passengers are not the ones driving the buses and having to deal with the problem.
2) Re Anon 1007 and David: It was decided to send all buses in there to make the service structure simpler - that was one of the main aims of the new network in 2006. Passengers don't like, and are confused by confusing patterns of service and cluttered timetable.
And even more of a reason is that the bus service alternates which route it runs via, so if you only send one bus in to meet the ferry, then the other routing variant misses out big time.
And what happens if the bus is delayed, do the ferry passengers have to wait at the Pontoon for the bus scheduled to go in there while countless other 1s all turn round at the Co-op in that time.
And what happens if the ferry's late? Answer: You miss the bus. They can't get the buses to wait 5 minutes for the ferry to arrive any more. It would ruin the bus service.
3) As Marc Morgan Huws once said, if it was really that hard to do, they wouldn't do it.
4) As greenline says, there is a post on the nearside of the bus, which allows the drivers to position perfectly and then just swing in.
5) They very rarely get it wrong. I've only seen one have to reverse, ever - and when I was younger I used to stand there watching them do it while my parents were shopping.
The only trouble is Southern Vectis have given too many Mini Pointer Darts away to Wilts & Dorset which results in double decker subsitution. There was a decker out pretty much the whole day the other day. Someone thanked them on their Facebook page for regognising demand on route 1 and putting the occassional decker out. Bless them.
What had actually happened was that they needed to use a MPD on route 6 (now it goes via the Undercliff they can't use deckers) and so there weren't enough left for the 1...
The other consideration is route suitabiltiy elsewhere on the route - this isn't the only awkard bit. A lot of the other part of the route in Cowes is very cumbersome in a decker, and nimble MPDs are excellent at dealing with this. Park Road (the whole lenght of which never used to be served pre-April 2006) is a particular example of this, as well as parked cars, tight junctions and hills starts on the park & ride routeing.
Is there any way the high speed ferries could dock on the opposite side of the harbour where the car ferries do,which has much easier level access to the buses?
If capacity on route 1 becomes an issue,will a section of the route need 'shorts' or a separate route to relieve the loadings perhaps ?
As others have said, there really isn't a viable alternative.
The ferry generates an very significant percentage of the total route 1 passengers - no doubt this is in large part due to the high frequency and seamless interchange between the two.
And from a strategic point of view, I'm sure Southern Vectis must derive a great deal of value from the fact that the first thing people see as they set foot on the island is a SV bus waiting to whisk them to Newport and possibly selling them a network ticket in the process.
Mr Omnibuses says: "Not sure I'd like to make this turn regularly." Actually I can tell you from personal experience, that's the best way to do it! If you're doing it all the time you quickly get used to where and when to turn and go through almost as if on tramlines - it's when you turn up there having not done it for ages that it can catch you out!
Anon @0953 is absolutely right - why is everyone trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist? The odd (extremely rare) paint scrape notwithstanding, buses go in every few minutes every day with very few problems, and the presence of a frequent bus service directly outside one of the main Island gateways is one of many inspired commercial moves by Marc and his team in recent years.
The corners in Mousehole using FDC's slimline Solos are also ferociously tight, although quite as bad as the days of LHSs with manual steering and gearboxes!
I seem to recall that the old bus station that used to exist in Eastbourne was a tight squeeze for the Southdown (and M & D) buses that had to negotiate it.
anonomyus 11.25
The only trouble is Southern Vectis have given too many Mini Pointer Darts away to Wilts & Dorset which results in double decker subsitution. There was a decker out pretty much the whole day the other day. Someone thanked them on their Facebook page for regognising demand on route 1 and putting the occassional decker out. Bless them.
What had actually happened was that they needed to use a MPD on route 6 (now it goes via the Undercliff they can't use deckers) and so there weren't enough left for the 1...
Sadly, you have your facts entirely wrong. The 6 is operated by two mid length Darts which would certainly not fit in the Pontoon.
There is a PVR of 7 on the 1, 1 engineering spare, and 1 MPDon the 38 that can be substituted with a double deck. That gives an effective spare ratio of 2/7. 3/7 would be criminal!!!
Marc Morgan Huws
"Sadly, you have your facts entirely wrong."
Oh I do really...?
Even though I have a positive identification?
"The 6 is operated by two mid length Darts which would certainly not fit in the Pontoon."
Yes, I am well aware of that. At what point in my message did I suggest putting one of the mid length Darts on the 1? I didn't.
What happened is that for whatever reason, one of the two mid length Darts were not available. This meant a non-double decker substitution was needed on the 6. So Mini Pointer Dart 309 was being used on the 6.
(For whatever reason, clearly no Dart was swapped off the 38)
This resulted in Scania decker 1146 being on service 1 for near enough the entire day from before 10 to just before 6pm.
To the operator, having a spare ratio of 3/7 might be "scandalous" (& can't MPDs can be used as a spare for other stuff too).
But I would say that having a bus that couldn't complete the route properly, out on the route for over eight hours is "scandalous".
As shown here, the ferry stop is key to the route. But it's not just that that's the problem. While, if you've just got off the ferry and are waiting for a bus, one bus just not showing up leaves a gap of 15 minutes instead of 7/8 (which is just about acceptable)...
...if you have just got off the ferry and want a specific routeing variant via either the park and ride or Round House (and turn up not knowing the times) then the bus not turning up leaves a maximum possible gap of 29 minutes before the bus you need turns up. Not good.
And with a decker out on it for over eight hours on October 18 (as posted on your Twitter feed and Facebook page on the day), that gap must have occured quite a few times.
Sadly predicting all breakdowns isn't something i've known any operator to be capable of.
An additional spare MPD wouldn't be of use anywhere else, we simply don't have additional routes where an MPD will meet capacity.
the curent spare ratio is right. It won't ever deal with every eventuality, but 2/7 is appropriate.
Marc
2/7 spare is far more than many operators carry...
Southern Vectis - the island's buses
09/11/11 @ 16:45
the 16:38 Route 1 Newport/Cowes & 17:00 return has been withdrawn as the bus is replacing a failed bus on the 16:45 route 6
Like · · @SouthernVectis on Twitte · 09 November at 16:53 via Twitter.
Eamonn Ned Kelly likes this.
Southern Vectis - the island's buses
10/11/11@12;35 Due to a breakdown the route 1 12;38 Newport to Red Jet,will operated by a D/D and terminate at CO/OP.
Like @SouthernVectis on Twitte 10 November at 12:37 via Twitter
Southern Vectis - the island's buses
10/11/11@12;40 This will also affect the 13;00 Red Jet to Newport, this will start from CO/OP.
Like · · @SouthernVectis on Twitte · 10 November at 12:42 via Twitter
Social media...
Southern Vectis - the island's buses
09/11/11 @ 16:45
the 16:38 Route 1 Newport/Cowes & 17:00 return has been withdrawn as the bus is replacing a failed bus on the 16:45 route 6
Like · · @SouthernVectis on Twitte · 09 November at 16:53 via Twitter.
Eamonn Ned Kelly likes this.
Southern Vectis - the island's buses
10/11/11@12;35 Due to a breakdown the route 1 12;38 Newport to Red Jet,will operated by a D/D and terminate at CO/OP.
Like @SouthernVectis on Twitte 10 November at 12:37 via Twitter
Southern Vectis - the island's buses
10/11/11@12;40 This will also affect the 13;00 Red Jet to Newport, this will start from CO/OP.
Like · · @SouthernVectis on Twitte · 10 November at 12:42 via Twitter
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