Omnibuses’ Northern Correspondent reports a little controversially on enthusiasts from the frozen north. Don’t blame me
This running day was more a celebration than a farewell. For, B200 DTU, First’s Leyland Olympian with its ECW body, is still on the books at Chester. But it can’t last much longer and September seems to see its likely demise. This may come at short notice.
Seeing the potential of such a momentous occasion, First placed B200 DTU in service on Saturday. In spite of the bus’ obvious operational deficiencies, it attracted a large and appreciative crowd of enthusiasts.
And this was interesting. Here, I reflected, were people generally of a certain age. And then I realised I, too, was also of that certain age. There were those who were content to enjoy the day in quiet reflection. And more gregarious types, swapping stories and anecdotes, speaking in the coded language of hobbyists no matter their passion, something that bonds & flocks them together, giving them a sense of tribal belonging.
It was also Chester races. There was plenty of Alex Warner’s “mutton dressed as lamb” around, though I’m not sure whether this young lady qualified
Curiously, they said very little that was positive about contemporary operations in and around Chester, no matter the operator. So much for Enthusiasm, thought I. I hope what they say in public is more restrained. I hope they keep their private views to themselves. The bus industry needs enthusiasts to help explain the reasons why, sometimes, the industry appears strange or perverse. There’re always good reasons and who better to understand and counter negative public views than enthusiasts. Who else is likely to stand up for the industry when the need arises? Certainly not Alex Warner’s Chester mutton-dressed-as-lamb types. First was nurturing enthusiasts on this particular day and let’s hope the investment paid off.
Also an ECW-bodied Olympian in Chester, but open top
Back to the bus, B200 DTU is a rare survivor, the last in this part of the world of its once ubiquitous kind. It started life in 1985 in and around Chester and stayed ever since. It was one of over 100 similar Olympians ordered and operated by the former Crosville Motor Services. This now rare ECW-bodied version endured several threats to its operational life. Alongside it at Chester are four newer Alexander-bodied examples and a handful of converted open top ECW-bodied Olympians used on City Sightseeing. The very nice man from First was offering discount vouchers for the city tour. Who says First can’t be enterprising?
Sundry sings of age on B200 DTU
B200 DTU should really have gone years ago. To think it was on premium Crosville Townlynx duties at the start of its career. Life moves on and this Olympian, in terms of ride quality, is no longer any kind of a match for later buses. As it thrashed around getting nowhere particularly quickly, its meaty diesel might’ve awakened passions but it, too, cannot match today’s lighter turbo-diesels. And, with four types of seat moquette on board and the appearance of ageing, it doesn’t give the impression the industry needs.
It may seem odd that people were celebrating the withdrawal of the Olympian. Whatever next. A farewell to the first Dennis Darts? I bet that’s already happened. The Olympian’s played its part and now, in the defence of the industry, so should the Enthusiast. Otherwise, why be Enthusiastic at all?
20 comments:
Some interesting thoughts today, and similar to thoughts I was having over the weekend.
In the early '90s I made several "on board" tape recordings of various vehicles of my local operator, Badgerline. Having recently rediscovered them I have listened to one or two and I started wondering - just what did the travelling public make of 20 year old Bristol REs and 15 year old VRs? Or even the (at that time) mid-life Olympians?
As the audio recordings prove, these vehicles were certainly noisy! And not just the engines and transmissions, but the bodywork too.
It’s easy to think that a resident of say, Westbury-sub-Mendip, with an hourly service of Bristol REs would just assume that that’s how buses are, like it or lump it. But Wells depot also ran Leyland Lynx, and regularly had Volvo B10M’s on loan from Weston depot, both relatively new at the time. How did they rate in passenger perceptions? The big bulky window pillars and basic design of the Lynx and the high floor Volvo, were they deemed good, or bad? Or were they just buses, no better, no worse?
I suppose the biggest problem is that most people in the industry, whether they admit it or not, are to some degree an enthusiast – they probably have to be to stay in the industry! But that leaves us rather blinkered in what we actually see, be it a threadbare 1986 Olympian or the latest flashy hybrid or fancy leather seated, free WiFi, guided bus.
I am an avid enthusiast for public transport; I was only briefly a bus spotter as a student. But my supportive enthusiasm is frequently (usually) dented by the poor standards from much of the industry. Printed publicity is atrocious, with the attitude often being "it's all on line, so go find out for yourself".
Bus stop information is grim and, if it exists at all, is often wrong or misleading. Enquiry offices have disappeared, because they don't bring in readily identifiable revenue.
Above all, people who don't travel; regularly have LOST CONFIDENCE in what has become a fragmented and oft-changing network.
Of course, there are exceptions, but very few.
My puny efforts (via forwarded blogs and letters) to "encourage" Travel South Yorkshire to get things right have been largely ignored.
It is very hard to be supportive when your support is, apparently, not wanted or rocks the boat (sorry, the bus)!!
Things change but I think it's harsh to criticise those who lament their passing.
We all know that the Leyland Olympian is no longer suitable for public service but for many of us it was state of the art when it came out. For me, an 80s child, it was an Olympian or an Atlantean (Roe rather than ECW in my case) that took me to school and it was an Olympian or Atlantean that brought me home. I know things move on- they have to- but it's still a bit sad that part of my childhood is heading off to the scrapyard.
I think perceptions change as technology moves on. I remember the Lynx coming out and it really was space-age when it did, with dot-matrix displays and that nifty little 'bus stopping' light that came on in the saloon when you pressed the bell. But I was travelling on one not so very long ago and my goodness it was dated- horribly noisy, bouncy and uncomfortable. Not a patch on the E300s and Wright/Volvos that replaced them in these parts. But that doesn't mean I didn't think they were the bee's knees when they came out; of their time they were really good buses.
And with Chester's enthusiast Depot and Operations Mgr at the helm in the first pic.
Threadbare or not, that Oly lasted 26 years - there's not a hope in hell that any of the overweight, thirsty, noisy, unventilated and uncomfortable modern machinery masquerading as buses will last anywhere like that long. Not enough time for enthusiasts to get to know them, really, though Tridents and the like do have a handful of fans.
Secondly, with 'public' transport no longer 'public', there's less and less vested interest. It's not for us or by us (in the literal meaning of the word 'omnibus') but for the profit of some foreign corporation; the passengers are a necessary evil.
This is an excellent post; would love to see more posts dealing with enthusiasts vs personnel vs owners vs the general public; they are four equally important components of the industry/pastime that ought to come together for everyone's benefit but never quite do.
I think that your post misses the point of enthuisasts. Being one myself i can say hand on heart that a bus that has come out the last 15 years or so i do not hold very close to my heart. Buses like Routemasters and Regents are often spoke of fondly by those old enough to remember them. As time moves on as it must buses like Nationals Titans and Olympians are becoming ever increasingly rare. But go back to the start of deregulation 25 years ago and most places had Olympians and Nationals in quite large numbers. So to my original point those buses many younger enthuisasts remember fondly and identify with more strongly because they remember them in service and have seen them in plases other than museums. If your honest most enthuisasts will prefere older buses simply because of there history and links to the past both the bus industry and their own.
@ Anonymous 0921:
Most of the major bus companies in the UK are owned and listed in the UK. The exceptions are Arriva and Transdev (RATP aren't that big yet).
Seeing as nobody else has mentioned it, can I say how enthusiastic I am about that girl's dress?
IMX most enthusiasts prefer the buses of their youth. I grew up with Nationals, VRs, REs, Leopards (and yes, Olympians) - those are what still interest me today. I can take or leave newer buses and half-cabs don't 'do it' either. Speaking to other enthusiasts, this seems pretty 'normal'.
Worryingly perhaps, few enthusiasts have a great interest in buses from before their schooldays. And in answer to a previous commenter, Tridents, Darts etc *are* indeed raved about by today's young enthusiasts, just as my generation did (do!) with VRs and Nationals. Don't forget that Titans, Nationals, Olympians etc were all derided as not being 'proper buses' by 'enthusiasts' when they first came out, much as B7TLs and Tridents are sniffilly referred to as 'plastic' today. Some things don't change!
Anonymous said...
"Some things don't change!"
Like the comments about modern buses not lasting long. Strangely, enough I can remember hearing exactly the same being said about the then new-fangled Leyland National (which, of course was not a patch on its illustrious predecessor, the Bristol RE). With hindsight we can see how wrong those predictions were. As far as today's new buses are concerned, I would think that, like them or not, pure economics mean that they will have to last.
BTW, anon at 09:21, omnibus means 'for all'.
Excuse my Latin; confused my dative with my (ablative? genitive?).
Things look as bleak for enthusiasts and enthusiasm as they do for the poor wretched bus passenger and the brave souls that drive them. We've got to the point where bus books that cover a subject in anything more than passing detail are financially unviable, while for the ordinary passenger, extremist politics (the DDA, free fares for kids etc) and lazy design have made the travelling experience as unpleasant as it can get, and for the employee corporate profit takes precedence over job security and job creation. And if the profit motive ever was to be taken out of the field, the public sector is not to be trusted any more.
Solutions? If any?
I grew up in Corsham, Wiltshire in the 1960s/70s/80s (Bristol Omnibus then Badgerline territory). I have many memories of spirited rides on REs, and VRs, it was the sound effects that did it for me.
I also remember MWs and Lodekkas, the latter also in Plymouth (Western National), and Weymouth (Southern National).
My enthusiasm was started as without a car my family had to travel by bus, and I remember the occasional lift down to Bath by neighbours as being such an underwhelming experience compared to the bus.
We also took family holidays to Bournemouth where I remember the Yellow Buses fleet being almost 100% Alexander bodied Atlanteans and Fleetlines. The roar of an Atlantean accelerating up the slight grade of Christchurch Rd past Boscombe Gardens was pretty impressive.
In contrast I also have nostalgic feelings for the Badgerline Minilink Transits that swarmed around Bath in the mid 1980s.
In addition to Badgerline Transits, I also regret never having visited Exeter in the Blundred era. His operation always inspired me, and I can recall how appalled I was when he sold out to Stagecoach.
@ Anon 1223:
while for the ordinary passenger, extremist politics (the DDA...) and lazy design have made the travelling experience as unpleasant as it can get
People keep saying this but I'm yet to understand how or why they say this.
The DDA means that buses should have clear displays written in lower case font. The DDA means that the bus shouldn't have a step entrance, should have a ramp and kneeling suspension and it should have space for a wheelchair. The DDA means that the seats should be usable for people with physical disabilities. ]#
How on earth does all this make things worse for the bus passenger? It means those with limited physical mobility don't have to struggle on to the bus, it means parents don't have to grapple with a toddler and a pushchair at the same time and it means that someone in a wheelchair doesn't have to sit at home twiddling their thumbs.
So what is wrong with the DDA?
As for the rest of the point, I think the E400 and Wright Eclipse are pretty stylish and comfortable buses. Controversial as it is, I'd rather have an Eclipse Gemini II over a Bristol VR any day of the week.
"As for the rest of the point, I think the E400 and Wright Eclipse are pretty stylish and comfortable buses. Controversial as it is, I'd rather have an Eclipse Gemini II over a Bristol VR any day of the week."
And I'll second that, give by a Volvo B10BLE to drive for 9 hours a day over an old Oly or those wretched Lynx's. Oly's are fun but it gets rather boring going up a hill for the nth time in a shift where the pedestrians are moving up the hill faster than the bus. As for the Lynx's - great if you are a theme park freak (why go to Alton Towers when you get the same scary experience on a Lynx) - not great for the poor sod who was stood near the front 5 seconds ago but now finds himself a crumpled mess lying at the back of the bus.
Old buses are fun to drive, learning to drive them properly is sometimes likened to learning to tame a wild creature, but no good for the general public in this day and age.
I'll applaud anyone who commemorates their passing but won't be sad that their gone.
I am quite happy to explain bus related matters, and at times annoy our councillors when I take the operators point of view.
What frustrates me, and I think many others, is when an operator or local authority responds to any comment and/or criticism, in a 'we know better than you - how dare you say anything' attitude which fails to acknowledge the concern of the people concerned. This may answer the commercial imperative but leaves people feeling unvalued and negative to the company or industry.
You ask 'what are enthusiasts for?' which is an interesting question. It suggests that their enthusiasm has some purpose other than just for their own personal pleasure; and it also implies that the industry could, perhaps, somehow help to 'create' enthusiasts.
This may be true, though I suspect most enthusiasm stems from the person themselves finding some aspect of buses interesting in a way that captures their imagination. As the industry rationalises in various respects, the degree of variety, and therefore interest, tends to decline, so one could expect a reduction in the level of enthusiasm. It may be in the industry's interest to try to counter that trend by promoting themselves, particularly to younger people, but the modern commercial pressures seem to lead to a reduced willingness to share information that might encourage enthusiasm. I came across the website of a German municipal operator which included detailed information about their fleet, including information about such matters as the fuel consumption of the various types of vehicle in the fleet. I would be slightly surprised if that sort of information was so easily available from British operators. Incidentally, the best fuel consumption was recorded for a British built bus - a Bristol FLF!
If there are enthusiasts, what are they for? Well, they can be good ambassadors for the operators - sometimes better than the operators themselves, though I guess operators have mostly sharpened up their PR skills in recent years. Also, as the event in Chester no doubt demonstrates, enthusiasts can also be a source of revenue - so it is no doubt worthwhile for an operator to be 'enthusiast- friendly', as enthusiasts who are 'operator-friendly' could be valuable.
Incidentally, the first Dennis Darts arrived in Southampton at the beginning of 1990, and they were among the first to enter service, so I would imagine that they have already been 'farewelled'. I guess we probably said they wouldn't last at that time, but it would be interesting to know how long they actually did run!
@RC169:
It's a shame that other operators don't take a leaf out of Go-Ahead's book (who else). They actually have a specific Enthusiasts Area on their website, at least Go North East do, detailing all the different stock moves, repaints, withdrawals and the like.
I couldn't care less that an Optare Versa's been repainted, but it is of negligible cost to Go-Ahead so it's a nice touch.
Enthusiast Area
First should hang their head in shame. Why celebrate a 26 year old, tatty relic from the past? Olympians were good in their day but are most certainly yesterdays news. And is it really that difficult to get a matching set of seats? Wake up bus operators nationally, we are in a retail industry now and the bus is your shop window...
'Incidentally, the first Dennis Darts arrived in Southampton at the beginning of 1990, and they were among the first to enter service, so I would imagine that they have already been 'farewelled'. I guess we probably said they wouldn't last at that time, but it would be interesting to know how long they actually did run!'
I rode on these Carlyle-bodied examples when they were new, and felt they were very lightweight and rattly and would only last five minutes. I think teh Southampton examples only lasted to about 2001 (after a conversion to CNG and a short spell with Unilink) but similar G reg examples are still operating locally. I like old buses, having recently used an RT as wedding transport, butI have to admit that modern, accessible, buses are more suited to today's conditions.
Ian, thanks for that. I had left Southampton by 2000, so lost track of the early Darts. Like you, to me they seemed rather insubstantial, and didn't seem destined for long lives. Incidentally, the first 5 were so early in the production that they were actually built by Duple.
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