One of the minor irritations I find on timetables produced by a certain publicity house is the misuse (or non-use) of capital letters at certain timing points. The timetable for the Cambridgeshire guided busway is a prime example.
So, in St Ives, the street named bus stops at Hill Rise and Ramsey Road find their first letters capitalised. Not so for St Ives Bus Station or, for that matter, the separate Huntingdon Bus Station and Rail Station. At least it doesn’t say Train Station!
The most perverse is Addenbrooke’s Hospital. I could almost understand the use of “hospital” were the timing point “Addenbrooke, hospital”, a minor point in a village or suburb. But it isn’t.
The same goes for virtually all Wilts & Dorset timetables. Here’s just one example. Note the upper case Royal Bournemouth Hospital, though. To print this as “Royal Bournemouth hospital” makes no sense.
Saturday, 20 August 2011
A Capital Offence
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21 comments:
I suppose "bus shelter" (W&D example) is acceptable but not the others. They are place names which in conventional English are capitalised.
With standards of literacy among the young an increasing source of despair, this sort of thing doesn't help. It seems to be all part of the trendy "triumph of form over function" pitfall that certain 'publicity houses' are in danger of falling into (especially those who favour chef pants as everyday attire!)
Ah, but surely if we are to "sell the excitement" of using the bus to youngsters, we must "speak their language"?
Hmm .. this would see timetables eventually decline in2 txtspk ...
But, wait, Traveline already adds one or two pages of bus stop texting codes free of charge every time you say 'print all' to a timetable.
Doh! Or rather Doe! Time for Barry to take a stand!
Perhaps Barry already writes this? He must surely be a candidate?
I would have expected those representing people with visual impairments to have complained about this sort of thing, as proper capitalisation must surely aid readability. Unfortunately, as with contravision advertising on bus windows, they don't seem to have done so.
Shame that this blog has degenerated into insulting people. Ray Stenning and Barry Doe have contributed a lot more to the industry than the contributors to this blog. Also note the difference between nouns and proper nouns.
Anon at 0949 - I assume by "this blog" you actually mean the commenters, rather than the actual blog posts itself?
All the blog post says it that it's a "minor irritation" - hardly insulting anyone. It's actually a valid point.
"Ray Stenning and Barry Doe have contributed a lot more to the industry than the contributors to this blog."
How do YOU know that? How do YOU know who contributes to this blog, comments on it, or has contributed what to this industry? A little arrogant in your assumptions aren't you?
I've worked in the bus world for well over thirty years...In that time I've met a whole raft of people who've contributed at least as much, and in some cases far more than the two you mention. For all I know some of them may well comment or contribute here....
Oh, and for the record I agree wholeheartedly with anon at 0916...
Busing is basically correct and I think it a pity to abuse the language in this way. Addenbrooke's Hospital is a proper name which should be capitalised.
It is said by some, though, that language is a living thing which evolves with the times. Today, people using social networking sites and phone texting pay only limited attention to capitals and, as they're heavily (but not exclusively ) used by the younger generation, I fear that's probably the way things are heading. Those of us like me who've been around for rather longer will probably have to get used to it.
My impression from when my own children were at school is that educationalists don't attach as much importance to the correct use of the language as they once did.
TBH I wonder, if much criticism of bad grammar and the like is part of an unwillingness to realise that language, spoken and written, is living and evolving; has done throughout history.
For example in 17th Century all nouns had an initial capital, just as German does even now.
Eventually much that is unacceptable will be normal.
Rather than complain, just write in good style, as an example.
I don't know the area but is the church in Pennington called Pennington Church, rather than St Cuthbert's Church, Pennington; likewise the cafe in Barton on Sea and the school in Old Milton Road? Maybe they are not proper names at all.
Barry Doe's mother died some some time ago. He spent the last months of her life caring for her virtually 24/7 without complaint.
Personal remarks have no place in a blog like this.
Barry MIGHT be opinionated and can be boring, but, sadly, he is usually RIGHT!
Three cheers for Bazza!
Anonymous said...
"Today, people using social networking sites and phone texting pay only limited attention to capitals and, as they're heavily (but not exclusively ) used by the younger generation, I fear that's probably the way things are heading."
Texting is surely more akin to shorthand and the sort of notes one wrote on the back of an old envelope (or a Post-It!), where correct grammar probably never was an high priority. I agree that language does evolve, but I don't think it will - or, indeed, can - go that far. One only needs to look at some internet forums to see what results when rules about spelling and punctuation are ignored. The communication (if it can be called such) often descends to incoherence. Correct use of the features of the language aids communication, which is important, particularly for complex matters - which timetables can sometimes be!
I'm not sure what Barry Doe has done to deserve such vitriol (anon at 09:16), as far as I am aware he 'campaigns' for good quality timetable information, which of course involves communicating information precisely and accurately. As 'fatbusbloke' says, such unsubstantiated personal remarks contribute nothing useful to the debate.
Thank you.
Language may be evolving, which is fair enough. But, the only way it can evolve is through usage which is incorrect.
Therefore, even though it might be "on the road" to "evolution" it is still incorrect at the current time, and as a professional body/company, getting grammar wrong never looks good - especially for the majority who still can use English correctly.
Yesterday’s comment at 0916 about Barry Doe came as something of a surprise. You don’t have to agree with what he prints about bus timetables. I know, for example, that a number of industry people disapprove. But there must nevertheless surely be a better way of expressing an opinion. I know Moordown-resident Barry reasonably well and I also know, were he to read that comment, particularly about his late mother, that he would be very saddened & indeed upset. I have therefore taken the unusual and extreme measure of deleting the comment in the hope that readers will understand. This in my view does not represent censorship.
I do not approve of much of the output of a prominent bus design house and do not always agree with Mr Doe on timtable issues. However, this does not make me right. Indeed one of the pleasures of this blog is the chance to discuss opinions in a constructive manner. It is illumnating to receive others' opinions and to change, on occasion, one's own.
I don't tend to agree with much Barry Doe writes (or the way he writes it). He has a right to express his views. We all have that right and the right to criticise his views and I agree with the learned Mr Busing that the 0916 comment was not the most appropriate way to do so.
I see, it's not right to insult Barry Doe, but it's fine to insult Ray Stenning with pathetic, irrelevant remarks about his choice of attire. Each to their own I say and, besides, and it would be good for some of the commentators to look at the own appearances before commenting on others. Personally, I admire anyone who follows his own rules and stands out in a crowd. The world needs characterful people. Good on you, Ray!
It's a tough one with proper versus common nouns. Is it called Huntingdon Bus Station or is it the bus station in Huntingdon? A very subtle difference; capitals should be used in the former but not in the latter.
I'd agree, though, stylistically it just doesn't look right. I'm not so certain that it is grammatically incorrect though.
As for Barry Doe, he can be boring (though that's more subject matter than actually him- hands up who gets excited about a fares manual?) but what he says is usually bang on the money.
@RC169: Lower case is easier to read for people with visual impairments, hence why bus displays have mostly stopped being capitalised.
David said...
"@RC169: Lower case is easier to read for people with visual impairments, hence why bus displays have mostly stopped being capitalised."
Agreed in respect of the 'all capitals' displays used in earlier times. However, the place names should obviously have initial capitals. The initial capitals add to the variety of the letters, which improves readability - take 'Cwm' (near Ebbw Vale) as an example.
As an outgoing member of staff at the agency responsible for the timetable, our rule of thumb is simple. Proper Names are capitalised (eg Charing Cross Hospital). However, if the stop was a hospital near Charing Cross (but called something else), it might be Charing Cross: hospital. Similarly, "crossroads" on its own is a description, not a place name - unless they are specifically known as, say, "Eynsham Crossroads". The station in Milton Keynes could be Milton Keynes Central, or Milton Keynes: rail station, but never Milton Keynes Rail Station, as that is not its name.
However this does not mean we get it right 100% of the time, we rely on local knowledge and information and happily change our timetables to make them as clear as possible for local users.
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