The New Bus for London will be as individually English (well, Irish) as Marmite or Beefeaters. And whether you agree with the millions being lavished on a pointless bespoke bus for our capital; or whether you feel that at last the bus’ time has come, the project is picking up pace, with prototypes due on the streets of London from between the new year to around March 2012. You’d better believe it. It’s happening. Nicely in time for the world to welcome the bus during the Olympic Games… and for the mayoral elections on 3rd May.
At Ballymeena
For, if you belief the writers of Yes, Minister, politicians like nothing better than finding themselves positively in the press. Yet, how many politicians can claim to have a bus named after them, even if “Borismaster” is really only slang. Put it another way, how many politicians are ever associated with high profile bus projects of any description? Buses tend to fall within the “unsung heroes” category.London’s surface transport MD Leon Daniels had the pleasure, yesterday, of driving the NB4L at Millbrook. His first thoughts were about refinement, responsiveness and a good lock.
And, guess what, he’s kindly offered me a test drive! No, really. It’s a close call… to break my anonymity & get behind the wheel of the development vehicle for probably the most advanced and famous bus in the world; or carry on with the blog, languishing in anonymity. I would need to come “out”, because false beards & sunglasses didn’t do it for Inspector Clouseau so why should they for me. Daniels did suggest that I turned up like The Stig, mind you. But then again, he knows who I am…
And Mayor Johnson, who actually had the first “official” turn behind the wheel, is no stranger to test driving vehicles, as a former motoring correspondent. Said Johnson in the Evening Standard, “This is the smoothest ride. It's the most sophisticated piece of machinery I've ever seen. This is a marvel of technology.” He would say that… but that doesn’t make it a false claim.Meanwhile, if you thought the NB4L was a straight (pardon the pun) replacement for London’s benighted bendies, think again. Artics will be off before Christmas, pledged Boris, just a little ahead of the Routemaster 2 prototypes.
i Leon Daniels
25 comments:
I still remain to be convinced that this is the answer to London's future bus needs at a price that can be afforded. You are now talking about up to 40 production models in service within 9 months for a vehicle that hasn't yet got into any passenger service. My understanding was that it would only be the 6 prototypes that would be on the road before the Mayoral election next May. Have things suddenly changed?
I hadn't realised that a production batch had been ordered, is there any truth they are going to route 29 operated by Arriva (to replace the old buses temporarily being pressed into service when bendys go in Dec)either directly (or indirectly by going to another route so the displaced buses go to route 29)
It's only the 5 prototypes in service early next year, not 40 production models. The Evening Standard reports that the 5 will be allocated to Arriva.
I'd love to see Boris do a 12 hour shift in London on one.
Leon Daniels answered on his blog my question about London wide service. If they do produce the NBfL as a two door version, I see no reason why this bus can't be taken up by all operators or even used outside of London.
When is the next mayoral election in London ? I'm guessing Boris's opponents will be making much of how they will scrap the wasteful scheme if elected.
Why do TfL think they need to foist this onto operators ? Small number of vehicles needing bespoke spares. Re-sale value nil, other customers who will order them,nil. What recession ?
Just wait for the first incident with one, and the press will make hay.
"I'd love to see Boris do a 12 hour shift in London on one."
Front or back? (-:
It's hard to imagine that the Borismaster will lodge itself in the public psyche as a quintissentially London bus (like RMs, RTs of old) if it is too common a sight in the provinces.
Good riddance to artics.
I WOULD RATHER SAY GOODBYE BORIS
As for your anonymity, I thought we all knew who you were anyway!
A great shame that Boris has ousted the artics for totally ridiculous reasons. They are, clearly, the most efficient people-movers available if rubber wheels are needed.
I am very glad to see the back of the Artics, whether this is the right bus for London can be argued either way, but when you consider the millions/billions relatively simple upgrades like the East London Line extension or Thameslink 2000/2018 cost, this is an extremely affordable exercise.
The story in the press about 30-40 is entirely spurious. We are having the prototypes and they will be in service starting early in 2012.
Any why are we 'foist[ing] these onto operators'? Well because it is our network and we determine the service to be provided. And this bus will be superbly fuel efficient and have very low emissions.
The next election is May 2012 by the way.
I do find all this odd. For most of the last 40 years people have bemoaned the lack of a bus designed specifically for London. Now we've got one!
The Routemaster didn't sell well outside London (although a provincial version of NBfL is entirely feasible) but it amply repaid its high cost by giving long life and low costs.
Isn't that what we want?
LD
Anon at 1410 "As for your anonymity, I thought we all knew who you were anyway!"
Just don't be broadcasting it too widely, please!
I do love the comments of folk who say other operators outside the capital would want to buy this bus....who exactly? Which operators would require a twin staircase, three door, open platform double decker when virtually all the double-deckers bought outside London are single-door, single staircase. The only one can think of in that form is Blackpool, who may want to evoke the nostalga of a ride along the prom in an updated Leyland PD3, without the style of the PD3...the bus would have to be extensively redesigned to remove the rear staircase, because in the "provinces" (love that word used, rather patronisingly, by folk in London to describe the area where Go-ahead, Stagecaoach, Arriva and First et all make their profits so that their bus division can fund its purchase of buses for London) the commercial reality is that area would need to have seats in it. However, if its redsigned, it looses the features that make it desireable in first place....
I also love the comment that London needs "bespoke" buses. Why exactly? Why are its operating conditions any worse than say Glasgow, Birmingham, Edinburgh, New York, Las Vegas, Manchester or Hong Kong that means that an ADL Enviro 400 or a Volvo/Wrights don't work? The fact is that they do work and work well, but some people have it in their heads that whats needed is an updated RM or RTL or something because they are still living in the 1950's.
This is a vanity project, pure and simple, on a lesser scale than that silly tramline in Edinburgh. Instead of squandering millions on it, perhaps London may wish to test the suitability of Tri-Axle vehicles on services, such as the Enviro 500 if its worried about increasing passenger numbers. I mean the tour buses seem to get around ok...
I don't ive in London, or use TfL very often, and so haven't really commented on this issue so far. However, I'm afraid I agree with the view that this is a white elephant of a project. I can't see there being a market for this vehicle, in used condition, outside London - therefore the vehicles will have to run for years in the capital in order to be financially viable. Meanwhile, vehicle emmissions will continue to fall and technology will continue to improve until these bues are seen as outdated, polluting, unsaleable liabilities
Re: Anon 11:49 "therefore the vehicles will have to run for years in the capital in order to be financially viable"
Why is that a problem? Why shouldn't a bus run its whole service life in London?
Re: Anon: 14:19. Of course there is no reason why a bus should not run its entire service life in London. The problem is that the chances of that are very unlikely thanks to the skewered way that London affects vehicle purchases. At the moment, tendered services are offered on the basis of either new or existing vehicles. Now, let's consider what'll happen with this and NBfL if it goes ahead.
At present the major operators can either purchase outright or lease. If they purchase outright, the bigger groups can cascade to their regional fleets at the end of the contract
retain for contracts that specify existing vehicles or sell them on. If they lease, they can retain or return to the lessors. If this white elephant is foistered upon them, they cannot cascade - no regional fleet has a need for the vehicle in it's existing form without extensive and costly modifications particularly around the rear platform/staircase - which means they could lease them. But when the vehicles do get returned to the leasing company - be that TfL whoever - they would have to be sold at a loss to a dealer or be scrapped. Because again, any dealer would struggle to sell a bus with no one wanting to buy it...
As Stated this is a Vanity project, which im not against as the the old routemaster is "The London Bus". And it would be nice for a bus to made for London and a iconic one too. No other operator out of london would "NEED" one of these as we all got on fine with our Gemini's and Enviro 400's.
But a good point some one said earlier in regards to passenger numbers why not a Enviro 500?? Could easily be modified to have two stairs and 2 or 3 large exits? But good Luck London with these "borismasters" hope fully they will prove them selfs and who knows maybe it will become a requirement to run a borismaster by TFL and bring back the old days when London was dominated by routemasters. (not that i remember as im only 27)
I'm anon at 14:19, thanks to anon at 19:27. I understand all that but what I don't understand is whether the New Bus will simply be an option which operators can choose or not, or whether they will be expected to run them for some or all appropriate tenders. You're assuming that operators will procure them in the usual ways but do we know that this is the case? Ideally since TfL want to have them, they should buy them and lease them to the winning operators but presumably the amount funds needed to be able to do that would prohibit it. So I guess the question is what exactly will cause/compel operators to buy/lease a fleet of New Buses rather than something more familiar and flexible such as, say, a fleet of E400s?
As this is a political project, the priority is to have some on display in time for the next mayoral election. Then they can worry about details like paying for it, and whether the layout works in practice.
I don't understand the need for the open platform. The stated need is so passengers can hop on and off between stops. I read an (Andrew Braddock?) article in Buses magazine a while back where he tried to sell that concept to some European transport operators. They were puzzled as to why buses were stationary between stops long enough for anyone to feel the need to attempt to board or alight. Maybe TfL should take the appropriate measures to ensure that buses are rarely delayed between stops, thus eliminating the need for quirky bespoke open platform buses.
One only has to look at the poor second-user uptake of the Bendies to see how a London-orientated vehicle has little value outside the capital. I know Malta has mopped up a chunk of them, but other than that,only penny numbers have found new homes on these shores.
As for TfL dictating what it's contractors should use,just what is so wrong with the existing fleet which they seem perfectly happy with ?
Perhaps there may be some incentives if tenders for routes agree to use the new vehicles?
Will there soon be a new single deck bus for London too perhaps ?
According to busandcoach.com,
"As part of its green credentials TfL is forecasting that the bus will return 10mpg, which it says is 15 per cent better than existing hybrids."
If that proves to be the case, then it may not be so difficult to justify the investment in the development costs of the NB4L. It seems a shame to negate those potential savings by the introduction of an (by general consensus) unnecessary second crew member.
A big 'if' perhaps...
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